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From Aaron Mulder <ammul...@alumni.princeton.edu>
Subject Re: Does there need to be a default web container?
Date Fri, 09 Dec 2005 02:48:40 GMT
Sorry Jeff, I have to disagree.  If you asked me whether you should
use Tomcat or Jetty, I really couldn't give you an informed answer. 
About the best I could say is "they both work fine in Geronimo, they
do a couple things like virtual hosting slightly differently, and the
Jetty team is actively involved in Geronimo whereas we pretty much
built the Tomcat integration on our own."  Still, that doesn't give
you much guidance (the last bit there is the only reason I personally
would have any preference at all).  And I feel like I'm in the *most*
informed 1% of all possible Geronimo users.

I don't think it's sensible to argue over what "average" people know
or don't know, it's just my feeling that if I can't make a clear
decision for obvious reasons, then I can't ask every user who ever
installs the product to make that same decision.

Thanks,
    Aaron

On 12/8/05, Jeff Genender <jgenender@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> Erin Mulder wrote:
> > Jeff Genender wrote:
> >> So you think your average Geronimo user will have no idea what a web
> >> container is?
> >
> > It's possible.
>
> I asked "average" user...not whether its possible.  The average user
> will probably be a developer...who has done some degree of background on
> the technologies.  I would hazard to guess there are few people who use
> BEA or Websphere and have absolutely no idea what a web container is.
>
> The developer will likely know what it is.  I have a hard time with
> equating someone's clickety-click Mom with our average user...its
> ridicules, which was really what my previous response was directed towards.
>
> >
> > There are a lot of experienced J2EE developers out there who have only
> > ever used full commercial stacks.  Asking them to choose between two web
> > containers is like asking them to choose EJB, MQ and Web Service
> > implementations.  They may pick Tomcat because they vaguely recognize
> > the name, but having to make that choice will add anxiety to their
> > install experience.
>
> I am sorry but I cannot agree here.  I cannot believe there are many
> "experienced" *J2EE* developers who have no idea what a web container
> is.  That is preposterous.  Are there some?  Sure - but I would say very
> few.  However, in servlet 101...of which many of these un-knowledgable
> users would go, surely a mention of a web container, what it is, and
> what they can use (including books, articles, internet), they should
> have a minimal understanding of web containers.
>
> >
> > Geronimo is also likely to become popular in academic settings (both
> > classroom and self-study) where people will need to install the server
> > before they get around to learning what a web container is.
>
> The academic component is such a small microcosm in the grand scheme of
> users, this not even a reason to think its has a major effect of the
> overall user-base.  We should push the direction of Geronimo towards
> what the community wants.  If the community wants Jetty, give it to
> them. If they want Tomcat, then let them have this.  Let the community
> decide.
>
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Erin
>

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