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From Matt Hogstrom <>
Subject Re: Does there need to be a default web container?
Date Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:53:43 GMT
My Magic G-Ball comment aside I'll throw my 2c into the debate.  First, the 
decision we make today is not binding for all time.  Also, I appreciate Joe's 
comment about simplicity but the reality is J2EE has a steep learning curve and 
as much as I would like to see Joe's mom download the server and get cracking I 
doubt she has much use for a J2EE server to post recipes or pictures of her 
grandchildren on the web.  PHP or Ruby would be easier I think :)

I appreciate that Tomcat is an Apache Foundation project and we want to taker 
that into consideration.  Since my involvement in the project though I think the 
Jetty team has been more actively involved in Geronimo in terms of responding to 
questions and making changes.  Jeff has been doing a great job at making sure 
Tomcat is a first class citizen as well.  I may be wrong but the Jetty community 
seems to be more active in G.

That said, I suggest we put some text in the installer that gives some context 
to why a customer would want to choose one over the other.  Indicate that 
Geronimo works equally well with either WebContainer and that what we are 
providing is a choice for them to meet their specific needs.  I would prefer to 
have a default checked and lean toward Jetty.

Regardless of which one is chosen I think the Installer should have some text to 
guide the user to making a decision and we should be clear about the Openness of 
Geronimo in allowing choice, providing information to make a decision and 
provide a default so Joe's mom can get cracking.


Panagiotis Astithas wrote:
> Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Joe Bohn wrote:
>>> I agree with Aaron with regard to usability.   Users don't want to 
>>> have to make any decisions on the first install (especially when they 
>>> first pick it up for evaluation).  My mom doesn't install anything on 
>>> her computer unless she can click, click, click and get it working.  
>>> I know our users are more sophisticated than her  ... but we want to 
>>> make it as easy as possibly to get something working quickly.  We 
>>> want to make this easy enough for my mom to install (even though she 
>>> never will).  :-)
>> So you think your average Geronimo user will have no idea what a web 
>> container is?
> I think this is the root of your miscommunication/disagreement: the 
> decision to choose a web container has to stem not only from an 
> understanding of what a web container is, but also from an evaluation of 
> the relative merits of both. That is, Joe User may know from Servlets 
> 101 what a web container provides, but he may not be aware of what this 
> choice entails. Of course such worries could be mitigated by a blurb in 
> this particular installer page that mentions that both are OK, etc.
> In the end, I think that not having a default choice (whatever that may 
> be) is a rather loud acknowledgment of a fear to have the debate and 
> make a choice :-)
> Cheers,
> Panagiotis

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