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From Kresten Krab Thorup <>
Subject Re: Trifork CORBA
Date Thu, 27 Oct 2005 12:39:56 GMT
> I pulled down the code an it looks like a lot of IIOP stuff is  
> there, what is missing for a full ORB?  I'm not sure how I can help  
> with this without the full orb code.  If we had that, I could try  
> integrating it into OpenEJB, but I am completely lost.

Sure, there is not an orb there yet; and so I understand your point  
of view.  What's not there is a lot of stuff, including all the  
server-side handling (POA implementation), as well as local  
invocation semantics (i.e., avoiding serializing arguments for local  
calls).  And also the character encoding stuff is not in there, since  
the original trifork orb only implemented the absolute minimum  
requirements to support isolatin-1 and 16-bit unicode.  This is  
probably fine for most western countries, but will not do it in  
arabic or eastern asia. So there's a lot of stuff missing.

Let me repeat what motivates me: I'm sick and tired of being the only  
one at Trifork that really knows the CORBA implementation, and this  
is my chance to get out of it.  I'm willing to put a lot of effort  
into making a new free orb (that Trifork can also use), but I want to  
make sure that I'm not the only go-to guy for problems with it when  
we're up and running.  So, Trifork needs an orb as much as Geronimo  
does, but at the same time we want to get out of the CORBA business.   
Also, I want to take this opportunity to avoid doing some of the same  
mistakes I did in the first implementation, and get many things right  
(as you like to say you do with Geronimo).  So this is also a chance  
to do some things much better.  For these reasons I want to be part  
of writing a new ORB.

The integration between CORBA and OpenEJB as it is right now in G is  
quite standard; using standard POA interfaces and so forth, and so  
here I don't expect that there should be any serious issues once we  
get to that point.

Integrating security and SSL is something where every orb is  
different because as far as I know this is not spec'd (or is it in  
CORBA 2.6?).  But here, we can do whatever fits best with what is  
already there in the Geronimo code.

> I had this same problem with the last IIOP donation, which was also  
> just IO code, and I hope to not repeat the experience.

There is no doubt in my mind that we should build a complete stand- 
alone and quality ORB.  Once we're up and running, we might even see  
Sun chime in, and have them adopt this the same way we've seen with  
many other Apache Java projects.  There - that would be a goal.

> What is your plan to get people involved?

I think we need to spend some time talking here about goals and  
priorities, and then I would expect that the people that are  
interested and capable of helping out would come forward as part of  
such discussions.

One interesting discussion that you brought up at EURO-OSCON is the  
relationship with ActiveIO.  So.  I'll post a separate mail on that  


> -dain
> On Oct 25, 2005, at 8:19 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>> For those of you that missed it Kresten wrote in the JIRA entry:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> As has been discussed previously, Trifork wants to donate a CORBA  
>> implementation. This message is to get things really started in  
>> context of Geronimo. Along with this message is a tar ball of the  
>> initial contribution, and I want to take this opportunity to  
>> describe what we are donating and how we would like to do this.
>> To set things straight, will not be donating a full CORBA  
>> implementation up front. What we are proposing is to donate the  
>> resources (read: developers) that it takes to do a full CORBA  
>> implementation in context of Apache Geronimo. Our concern with  
>> donating the full code is that we want to ensure that this is  
>> built as a community effort, so when we're done we are not the  
>> "single point of failure" for this to succeed as we go forward. We  
>> would like to avoid being the only ones to know the code, so that  
>> the CORBA implementation that comes out of this is something that  
>> can have a life without us pushing it forward. This is really the  
>> principal value that we see in contributing to this project. We  
>> want to have a free and independent CORBA implementation too, but  
>> we would like to avoid being stuck on it as we go forward.
>> Having said all that, we do have a CORBA implementation; and in  
>> our effort to bring this forward we will definitively use bits,  
>> pieces or even large chunks of this to make the Apache Geronimo  
>> CORBA implementation be complete and successful.
>> We know that there is eagerness in the Geronimo community to get  
>> things started in building a CORBA solution, and so hopefully this  
>> first contribution will be accepted as a starting point from which  
>> we will build a world-class CORBA system.
>> What is in this package is the foundation of a new I/O subsystem  
>> that I have previously talked about, and some of the code to hook  
>> that up with the client-side of the CORBA stack. As such, thins  
>> chunk of code is not in even self-contained nor complete. It's  
>> just the state of the code in our lab right now, and we want to  
>> move this into Geronimo space before we get too far along.
>> The mile stones that I imagine moving forward from here would be  
>> something like this:
>> 1. Client-side stream-based invocation.
>> 2. Value semantics (object serialization)
>> 3. Server-side stream-based invocation handling, including POA  
>> implementation.
>> 4. Dynamic stubs.
>> 5. Local invocations.
>> There are a ton of sub-projects that I would love to see someone  
>> starting on; some of which already have place holders or stubs in  
>> the code that is part of the tar ball attached to this.
>> On Oct 25, 2005, at 7:40 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>> Kresten,
>>> Can you take the main comment of the JIRA and post here on the  
>>> list?  Having a threaded discussion in JIRA is awful.
>>> Welcome, thanks for the contribution, and I look forward for more  
>>> discussion here.
>>> geir
>>> On Oct 25, 2005, at 10:29 AM, Kresten Krab Thorup (JIRA) wrote:
>>>> Use Trifork CORBA (freeorb
>>>> --------------------------
>>>>          Key: GERONIMO-1111
>>>>          URL:
>>>>      Project: Geronimo
>>>>         Type: New Feature
>>>>   Components: CORBA
>>>>     Versions: 1.1
>>>>     Reporter: Kresten Krab Thorup
>>>> -- 
>>>> This message is automatically generated by JIRA.
>>>> -
>>>> If you think it was sent incorrectly contact one of the  
>>>> administrators:
>>>> -
>>>> For more information on JIRA, see:
>>> -- 
>>> Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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