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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <>
Subject Re: What do we do about fixable problems in M5?
Date Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:19:13 GMT

On Oct 5, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:

> I think there's two different types of problems here that are being  
> confused.
> The first is a few configuration issues with the zip image that  
> Stefan (in the tomcat config.xml) and Matt (with the TranQL and  
> DB2) have discovered.  There may be more of these but these types  
> of issues that arise but they are *not* issues which 100% of  
> customers will hit.  For these types of problems I think that an  
> errata on the download page should suffice (with individual  
> replacement modules and directions).
> The second is another issue that Stefan discovered which involves  
> the installer.  This is the type of thing that can affect a lot of  
> users and may be something that would cause us to create an M6.   
> However, since the installer is itself a unique download do we  
> really have to build another M6 to replace it?  Can't we just build  
> a new installer off the M5 image with changes to the installer  
> alone that should not affect the TCK results?  If possible I think  
> this would be a better solution than dropping it completely from M5.

I don't think we're advocating dropping it - just redoing it...

> Another idea would be to just add some very "in your face"  
> statements around the download link for the installer itself.  Does  
> Apache regulate what you can and cannot include on the download page?

The geronimo download page is governed by the project.  How "in your  
face" are you thinking here?

Probably don't want "If you use this, your (@!#@!@-ed, and if you  
don't like it, you can go *(@#!@*@!#)!@#"



> Joe
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>> Without a really big disclaimer on the download page, my guess is  
>> that approximately 100% of new-to-Geronimo M5 Installer users will  
>> run into this problem. All you have to do is keep hitting "Next".  
>> I did. I just never started my "installed" server, because I'd  
>> already tested the zipped/tarred version of code (my mistake).
>> I don't think an errata is sufficient and I don't see how we can  
>> ignore such a visible issue. This may be a bit heretical, but one  
>> option is not to release the installer. Although this is a server  
>> issue, you don't hit this problem in normal usage when running  
>> from an zip/tar "install" (at least I haven't run into any other  
>> problems, am I missing something?).
>> Most first-time users will choose the install download thinking  
>> they're making their lives easier, when actually, they've just  
>> made their lives more difficult. Although some last-minute hard  
>> work went into the installer, IMO, the M5 installer is of limited  
>> value for first-time Geronimo users. I also think that the current  
>> installer is actually a configuration utility in disguise -- we  
>> should start separating concerns...
>> BTW, I assume that actually fixing the underlying problem means  
>> rerunning the TCK tests? Thus the reticence for fixing?
>> --kevan
>> On 10/5/05, *Geir Magnusson Jr.* <  
>> <>> wrote:
>>     On Oct 5, 2005, at 8:30 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>      > I think that will work but users won't find Geronimo  
>> incredibly
>>      > useful if they have to pull a whole new build to fix a single
>>     problem.
>>     Which will work?
>>     i think the errata is necessary so people will know what to  
>> do.  As
>>     for a quick M6?  I think it depends on the %-age of people  
>> that will
>>     hit the problem.
>>      > I discovered a similar problem in TranQL that the 1.1 SNAPSHOT
>>      > doesn't generate the right SQL syntax for DB2 and had to  
>> tweak the
>>      > Syntax Generator.  So the option going forward is for  
>> someone to
>>      > pull TranQL 1.2-SNAPSHOT which wil most likely break their  
>> build
>>      > too because of the serialization problem (probably not  
>> likely with
>>      > my example but a high probability for other types of fixes).
>>     Does this mean as of now, we have a problem w/ DB2?
>>      >
>>      > Sachin had the right idea of highlighting the issues with
>>      > serialVersionUIDs but that was part of a larger problem.   
>> I'll open
>>      > a feature JIRA that focuses on improved serviceability  
>> which would
>>      > encompass these recurring issues and we'll look for someone  
>> to step
>>      > up to the plate and put a strategy together.
>>      >
>>     yes, I think that's a different (but very important) issue  
>> altogether.
>>      > Thoughts?
>>      >
>>     Go man, go...
>>      > - Matt
>>      >
>>      > Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>      >
>>      >> On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:24 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>> Stefan Schmidt has found our first configuration problem  
>> in M5,
>>      >>> namely that the listener name in the ejb builder in
>>      >>> config.tomcat.xml points half to tomcat and half to  
>> jetty.  This
>>      >>> is easy to fix by hand (change JettyWebContainer to
>>      >>> TomcatWebContainer).  However I doubt we want to  
>> rerelease M5 to
>>      >>> fix this.  What do we want to do about issues like this?   
>> One
>>      >>> possibility is to have an "errata" page clearly linked  
>> from the
>>      >>> download page.
>>      >>>
>>      >> That's a great idea.
>>      >>
>>      >>>   There must be some other possibilities, any ideas?
>>      >>>
>>      >> 1) Can we capture this as some kind of functional test to  
>> prevent
>>      >> from happening again?
>>      >> 2) how long would it take to fix on branch/m5 (and head)  
>> and do a
>>      >> M6  tag off of branch/m5 (if people don't find that too
>>      >> nauseating) and  release that?
>>      >> geir
>>      >>
>>      >
>>      >
>>     --
>>     Geir Magnusson Jr                                   
>> +1-203-665-6437
>> <>
> -- 
> Joe Bohn
> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he  
> cannot lose."   -- Jim Elliot

Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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