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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: What do we do about fixable problems in M5?
Date Wed, 05 Oct 2005 15:19:13 GMT

On Oct 5, 2005, at 11:01 AM, Joe Bohn wrote:

> I think there's two different types of problems here that are being  
> confused.
>
> The first is a few configuration issues with the zip image that  
> Stefan (in the tomcat config.xml) and Matt (with the TranQL and  
> DB2) have discovered.  There may be more of these but these types  
> of issues that arise but they are *not* issues which 100% of  
> customers will hit.  For these types of problems I think that an  
> errata on the download page should suffice (with individual  
> replacement modules and directions).
>
> The second is another issue that Stefan discovered which involves  
> the installer.  This is the type of thing that can affect a lot of  
> users and may be something that would cause us to create an M6.   
> However, since the installer is itself a unique download do we  
> really have to build another M6 to replace it?  Can't we just build  
> a new installer off the M5 image with changes to the installer  
> alone that should not affect the TCK results?  If possible I think  
> this would be a better solution than dropping it completely from M5.

I don't think we're advocating dropping it - just redoing it...

>
> Another idea would be to just add some very "in your face"  
> statements around the download link for the installer itself.  Does  
> Apache regulate what you can and cannot include on the download page?
>

The geronimo download page is governed by the project.  How "in your  
face" are you thinking here?

Probably don't want "If you use this, your (@!#@!@-ed, and if you  
don't like it, you can go *(@#!@*@!#)!@#"

:D

geir


> Joe
>
> Kevan Miller wrote:
>
>> Without a really big disclaimer on the download page, my guess is  
>> that approximately 100% of new-to-Geronimo M5 Installer users will  
>> run into this problem. All you have to do is keep hitting "Next".  
>> I did. I just never started my "installed" server, because I'd  
>> already tested the zipped/tarred version of code (my mistake).
>> I don't think an errata is sufficient and I don't see how we can  
>> ignore such a visible issue. This may be a bit heretical, but one  
>> option is not to release the installer. Although this is a server  
>> issue, you don't hit this problem in normal usage when running  
>> from an zip/tar "install" (at least I haven't run into any other  
>> problems, am I missing something?).
>> Most first-time users will choose the install download thinking  
>> they're making their lives easier, when actually, they've just  
>> made their lives more difficult. Although some last-minute hard  
>> work went into the installer, IMO, the M5 installer is of limited  
>> value for first-time Geronimo users. I also think that the current  
>> installer is actually a configuration utility in disguise -- we  
>> should start separating concerns...
>> BTW, I assume that actually fixing the underlying problem means  
>> rerunning the TCK tests? Thus the reticence for fixing?
>> --kevan
>> On 10/5/05, *Geir Magnusson Jr.* <geirm@apache.org  
>> <mailto:geirm@apache.org>> wrote:
>>     On Oct 5, 2005, at 8:30 AM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>>      > I think that will work but users won't find Geronimo  
>> incredibly
>>      > useful if they have to pull a whole new build to fix a single
>>     problem.
>>     Which will work?
>>     i think the errata is necessary so people will know what to  
>> do.  As
>>     for a quick M6?  I think it depends on the %-age of people  
>> that will
>>     hit the problem.
>>      > I discovered a similar problem in TranQL that the 1.1 SNAPSHOT
>>      > doesn't generate the right SQL syntax for DB2 and had to  
>> tweak the
>>      > Syntax Generator.  So the option going forward is for  
>> someone to
>>      > pull TranQL 1.2-SNAPSHOT which wil most likely break their  
>> build
>>      > too because of the serialization problem (probably not  
>> likely with
>>      > my example but a high probability for other types of fixes).
>>     Does this mean as of now, we have a problem w/ DB2?
>>      >
>>      > Sachin had the right idea of highlighting the issues with
>>      > serialVersionUIDs but that was part of a larger problem.   
>> I'll open
>>      > a feature JIRA that focuses on improved serviceability  
>> which would
>>      > encompass these recurring issues and we'll look for someone  
>> to step
>>      > up to the plate and put a strategy together.
>>      >
>>     yes, I think that's a different (but very important) issue  
>> altogether.
>>      > Thoughts?
>>      >
>>     Go man, go...
>>      > - Matt
>>      >
>>      > Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>      >
>>      >> On Oct 4, 2005, at 11:24 PM, David Jencks wrote:
>>      >>
>>      >>> Stefan Schmidt has found our first configuration problem  
>> in M5,
>>      >>> namely that the listener name in the ejb builder in
>>      >>> config.tomcat.xml points half to tomcat and half to  
>> jetty.  This
>>      >>> is easy to fix by hand (change JettyWebContainer to
>>      >>> TomcatWebContainer).  However I doubt we want to  
>> rerelease M5 to
>>      >>> fix this.  What do we want to do about issues like this?   
>> One
>>      >>> possibility is to have an "errata" page clearly linked  
>> from the
>>      >>> download page.
>>      >>>
>>      >> That's a great idea.
>>      >>
>>      >>>   There must be some other possibilities, any ideas?
>>      >>>
>>      >> 1) Can we capture this as some kind of functional test to  
>> prevent
>>      >> from happening again?
>>      >> 2) how long would it take to fix on branch/m5 (and head)  
>> and do a
>>      >> M6  tag off of branch/m5 (if people don't find that too
>>      >> nauseating) and  release that?
>>      >> geir
>>      >>
>>      >
>>      >
>>     --
>>     Geir Magnusson Jr                                   
>> +1-203-665-6437
>>     geirm@apache.org <mailto:geirm@apache.org>
>>
>
> -- 
> Joe Bohn
> joe.bohn@earthlink.net
>
> "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he  
> cannot lose."   -- Jim Elliot
>
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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