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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Generic Logo Contest Guidelines
Date Sun, 09 Oct 2005 16:55:39 GMT
The PRC has made guidelines.  The guidelines seem to be reasonable.   
You haven't objected to any specific aspect, but just the fact that  
there are guidelines.  If you don't think they are reasonable, lets  
be constructive and offer feedback.  I'm happy to help there.

If there are questions about specific logos, lets ask the PRC.  Logo  
#11 may or may not be fine. Lets ask.  I'm happy to help there.

The point of me asking the PRC for guidelines was to enable us to  
make a decision about something that many people in the ASF community  
are sensitive about using an objective set of rules established by  
the ASF, rather than risk bad feelings based the spectrum of opinions  
that individuals have on naming and branding.  In many people's  
opinion, we have one strike against us because of the name we chose.   
Lets not get another.

geir

On Oct 9, 2005, at 11:55 AM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:

> On Oct 9, 2005, at 7:11 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>
>> On Oct 8, 2005, at 1:59 PM, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2005, at 8:47 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Lets cut to the root of it - Is your problem with having to work  
>>>> within the guidelines from the PRC, or is there some particular  
>>>> problem with the guidelines themselves?  I'm sure that if it's  
>>>> the latter, any reasonable suggestion, change or addition will  
>>>> be welcomed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well cutting to the chase, I do have a problem with the  
>>> guidelines.  Everyone has an opinion on the logo, but the opinion  
>>> of the folks involved in the PRC seem to cary veto power.  It is  
>>> clear that the PRC is simply trying to avoid potential future  
>>> problems, and I believe that it is important for the members of  
>>> the Geronimo community to hear the concerns of the PRC.  I expect  
>>> the Geronimo community should take this into account when  
>>> selecting a logo, but I don't think that anyone other then the  
>>> Geronimo community should be choosing the logo.
>>>
>>> The big problem here is the most popular logo is #11, and there  
>>> are a few outsiders that don't like this.  Instead of them coming  
>>> to the community and trying to convince the community that this  
>>> is a bad choice, the PRC simply issues a mandate, and that grates  
>>> on me.  I say, if you want to be involved in the Geronimo logo  
>>> process come here and discuss it, otherwise keep your opinions to  
>>> your self.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> First, don't forget that this is an Apache project, and therefore  
>> we have to abide by Apache Foundation guidelines for things.
>>
>
> In every email I have sent I have made this point.  If this is an  
> official "Apache Foundation guideline" then we must follow it, or  
> appeal it to the board.  I am questioning if this is an official  
> "Apache Foundation guideline".
>
>
>> Second, I think you are leaping to conclusions.  If there is a  
>> logo that we feel may not satisfy the guidelines but feel is ok,  
>> we should probably just ask the PRC.
>>
>
> That statement implies that the PRC has jurisdiction over logo  
> selection, and I am questioning that.
>
>
>>> If this is an official mandate of the board then we must accept  
>>> it, but I'm not happy about it, which is why I feel it is  
>>> critical to determine if this is a mandate of the board.  Did the  
>>> board give the PRC rule making authority over all imagery at Apache?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
> Cool.  That was all I was asking.  Now for a bit of Regan "trust  
> but verify".  Where can I find the Board resolution stating this?
>
>
>>>   Did the board specifically direct the PRC to create logo  
>>> guidelines?
>>>
>>
>> No, but that's utterly irrelevant.  I asked the PRC to create  
>> guidelines, because our name selection was and is controversial,  
>> and there's absolutely no reason to further antagonize members of  
>> the Apache community with a logo decision along the same lines.   
>> Further, our name and imagery will be used far and wide in the  
>> industry, and very prominently, and I thought that was another  
>> excellent reason.
>>
>
> Assuming the above is true, I agree the question was irrelevant.   
> If you did have concerns, why didn't you come to the community first?
>
>
>>> Has the Board officially accepted these guidelines or is this  
>>> still a rough draft?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Again, utterly irrelevant, as the board has officially delegated  
>> responsibility for branding and imaging to the PRC, and doesn't  
>> need to review every decision.   If there are issues with the  
>> guidelines, the PRC will welcome our feedback.  If we're not  
>> satisfied, we can appeal to the board, but I'm not sure what we'd  
>> be trying to achieve at that point.
>>
>
> I think it is completely relevant.  Given that this policy effects  
> the entire ASF and changes the way logos has been done up to this  
> point, if this is just a draft, I would propose that we wait for  
> the final form, because my guess is it will tick off some powerful  
> Apache members, and be changed.
>
>
>>>   I personally will be more comfortable if we knew exactly where  
>>> these guidelines stand within Apache.
>>>
>>
>> I hope it's clear now.
>>
>
> It is now.  I was my understanding that Apache tended favor putting  
> decisions into "Project Rights" and not "Foundation Rights", but I  
> guess as any organization ages there is a tendency to centralize  
> more and more.
>
>
>>> BTW, I personally think #11 is tacky, but not offensive, and am  
>>> fine to have it in the contest, but personally #9 to win.
>>>
>>
>> If we think that we should go to the PRC about #11 and ask, lets  
>> do that.  Otherwise, lets move on.
>>
>
> Good idea.  Why don't we have the logo contest will all logos?  I  
> think everyone in the community gets the seriousness of this issue,  
> and will take it into account when voting.  If the winner is not  
> approved by the PRC, then we can take it to the board.
>
> -dain
>
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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