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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Generic Logo Contest Guidelines
Date Sun, 09 Oct 2005 19:30:24 GMT

On Oct 9, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:

> On 10/9/2005 10:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>
>>
>> On Oct 9, 2005, at 12:54 PM, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I see Dain's point and I think that we do need to clarify if the   
>>> PRC's guidelines are suggestions or hard rules that they have  
>>> been  empowered by the corporation to enforce.  We need to  
>>> clarify this  because it seems that the community really likes  
>>> the contentious  logo; they are aware of other's opinions and  
>>> still they cling to  their choice.
>>>
>>
>>
>> that's fine.  Then we run it by the PRC and if they like it, it's  
>> fine.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> If these guidelines are suggestions then let's move on and  
>>> install  our new, butt ugly, logo.  ;)  The community mandate is  
>>> clear.  If  these guidelines are hard rules that the PRC has been  
>>> empowered by  the corporation to enforce, then more discussion  
>>> needs to be take  place.
>>>
>>
>>
>> This is why I suggested we get the guidelines from the PRC,  
>> winnow  down the set, and let the community freely decide then.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> We are at a fork in the road and we, the community, need to  
>>> clearly  understand what the situation is.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Where is the question?  Are we debating :
>>
>> a) if the PRC has the right to make such guidelines?
>>
>> b) if they are guidelines or rules?
>>
>> c) if we are choosing to ignore the guidelines for the logo that   
>> people are voting for?
>>
>> d) if it's smart for us to ignore the spirit of the idea behind  
>> the  guidelines?
>>
>> I think that we are behind the count here, so to speak, and would  
>> be  well served by being extra careful.
>>
>
>
> We are not debating.  I and others would like to know the answers  
> to A and B.

A: What exactly constitutes proof here?

As a director last year, I voted for the resolution here :

http://www.apache.org/foundation/records/minutes/2004/ 
board_minutes_2004_06_23.txt

which, in part, says :

        RESOLVED, that the Public Relations Committee be and hereby is
        responsible for organization and oversight of efforts to handle
        public relations on behalf of The Apache Software Foundation,
        including trademark licensing and other issues regarding
        management of the Apache brand and raising of funds

Now, we can argue about the finer points of if "management of the  
apache brand" implies the whole suite, such as project branding, or  
just the ASF brand in isolation, but I voted for it at the time with  
the understanding that projects like Apache Geronimo are part of the  
ASF, and therefore the PRC has an oversight role.


> IMHO, it is not smart for us to ignore the spirit of the idea  
> behind the guidelines but, it is always best for the community to  
> make an informed decision.
>
> Are you saying, "let's run the logo that the community picks by the  
> PRC and if they like it as well, then why dig up A and B which is a  
> contentious thing to do"?  Sounds good to me.  I would prefer to  
> have a non-procedural consensus then to add/analyze more process  
> and hierarchy.
>

I would too, but I did this to avoid us getting kicked around again  
for making choice that the foundation, or parts of it, found not in  
the ASFs better interest.  Now we are aware of the (rules |  
guidelines | heavy hand of the man), we're all professional adults  
with a self-interest in finding a logo that is memorable, unique and  
non-controversial, and I'm sure that we'll do the right thing.  And  
if we don't, we can't claim ignorance.  And if someone doesn't like  
it, it's a larger discussion with the PRC.

> My two cents: I think that we should follow the PRC's guidelines as  
> if they were hard rules for two reasons.  First, is that they seem  
> to me to be good and reasonable guidelines.  Second, is that it is  
> their role to come up with corporate/community wide guidelines; I  
> think that we should respect that.
>

Great.

Thanks

geir

>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437
geirm@apache.org



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