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From "Geir Magnusson Jr." <>
Subject Re: Google Summer of Code
Date Thu, 23 Jun 2005 00:00:59 GMT

On Jun 22, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Aaron Mulder wrote:

> Jeff,
>     I'm open to the approach you recommend.  But I still believe that
> to really teach someone about open source, they need to hold commit on
> something, and be able to break the build and get yelled at, and so  
> on.
> If we want to make it clear this is a non-traditional path, we could
> decide to automatically remove commit privileges at the end of the
> project.  I'd prefer that we give them the experience and then take it
> away, rather than convince them that the sole function of an open  
> source
> developer is to maintain their own source tree and submit patches.  I
> guess I'm trying to cram a 1-year experience into a 2-month microcosm.
> But I also agree that we shouldn't frame this as the standard  
> practice for
> interns.
>     Anyone else out there have an opinion?

Isn't the entire process you are describing what we'd want to do with  
any new community member who wishes to contribute via committing code?

I'm all for the idea of mentoring, and like the Summer of Code idea  
if it helps students to engage with us.

I also like the idea of getting willing contributors going in this  
way, no matter who they are, as long as the dedication and alignment  
is there - maybe that's what you are identifying with a student  
signing up for this, that they are accelerating their demonstration  
of commitment to working with the project and community.

How can we quantify and recognize that commitment more generally?


> Thanks,
>     Aaron
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2005, Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Aaron,
>> Thanks for stepping up and accepting this.
>> My only .02 on this is you have to be careful about this accellerated
>> role, and here is why...
>> In open source, there is no age limit.  In fact I believe one of the
>> main/lead Firefox committers was in his early  
>> committership
>> should not be offered just because someone becomes an intern.  Due to
>> the fact we have no barrier to entry, including age, nothing  
>> prevents a
>> person from becoming a committer on thier own merits.  Anyone can
>> contribute and play in the sandbox.
>> My point really is that we have a community that everyone deserves to
>> enter the geronimo team by hard work, and to accellerate someone  
>> due to
>> internship kind of breaks the rules and may cause some alienation  
>> in the
>> community...especially those who have spent time helping out and have
>> not been offered committership.
>> I think the point of being a mentor is to help walk a person  
>> through the
>> process and how things are the open source way and  
>> hopefully
>> have some cool code to show for it at the end of the day.  But that
>> should be done without causing community heartburn.
>> Here is an idea...
>> What about an Apache "Summer of Code" ACL for SVN?  This allows the
>> intern to not be an actual committer, but allows them to get the SVN
>> feel on an opensource project.  It  would offer a good balance for  
>> being
>> a mentor without causing bad feelings for those who have  
>> contributed and
>> have not been offered committership.  What do you think?
>> Jeff
>> Aaron Mulder wrote:
>>> All,
>>>     I volunteered to be a mentor for the Google Summer of Code, and
>>> there were a number of applications for Geronimo.  I'm hopeful  
>>> that at
>>> least one of them will be accepted.
>>>     If that happens, we need to decide how to treat the student for
>>> the duration of the project (in terms of committership).  This is  
>>> kind of
>>> a special case in that the program is only a little over 2 months  
>>> long,
>>> which means normally we probably wouldn't have made the person a  
>>> committer
>>> in that time frame.  But given that one of the goals is to teach the
>>> person how to contribute to open source, it seems to me like we  
>>> wouldn't
>>> be doing them justice if we didn't give them commit for at least  
>>> part of
>>> the project.
>>>     I'd propose that if this goes through, we put the student on an
>>> "accelerated plan" where we have them contribute their initial  
>>> work via
>>> patches, review and provide feedback, and then if all goes well  
>>> offer them
>>> commit within the first 2-4 weeks.  We will then need to evaluate  
>>> their
>>> situation at the end of the program (both their contributions and  
>>> their
>>> availability to work with us in the future) and decide whether to  
>>> end
>>> their commit status or not (without any prejudice if we do decide  
>>> to end
>>> it for whatever reason).
>>>     So I'd love to get everyone's feedback on whether this seems OK.
>>> I specifically want this to be a "special case" -- I don't want  
>>> to apply
>>> this to anyone else.  I understand that there are a lot of people  
>>> in the
>>> community who work hard and contribute and have not been offered  
>>> commit,
>>> and I don't want to offend anyone or make anyone feel  
>>> underappreciated,
>>> but I do personally feel like mentoring a student to be a future  
>>> open
>>> source developer under the terms of this program requires more  
>>> than simply
>>> asking them to submit patches.
>>>     Let me know!
>>> Thanks,
>>>     Aaron

Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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