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From Geir Magnusson Jr <>
Subject Re: What hidden agenda?
Date Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:33:47 GMT
I think that this is an important issue, but not the important one for 
this thread, and we're getting caught in a rathole.

The conversation in question started on the dev list, had a phone call 
between two individuals that really respect each other and wanted to 
figure out where the crossed wire was, and came back to the email list. 
  From my POV, the phone call was a non-event.

The issue contained in the message that triggered this thread was that 
a member of the community has a problem with the spirit in which we're 
interacting as a community, not the mechanism through which we are.  I 
think it's important that we all think about and discuss this specific 


On Nov 8, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:

> Within the ASF, the use of the development mailing list is *the* method
> of development discussion. That's the reason for it.
> Wikis are good for "after the fact" documentation.
> IRC is good when a small subset of developers need to
> get together quickly to talk about some aspects of
> development, but it should quickly and completely
> migrate to email after the "pressing" matters have
> been dealt with. Same with thinks like "meetings
> over beer" and stuff like that. The reason, of
> course, should be obvious: it excludes by its very
> nature other developers. And you can't have collaborative
> development when that happens.
> Also, in-the-open development via Email makes it easy
> to prevent such claims as "back door" activity. How can it
> be back door when it's openly discussed in the primary
> development scheme?
> In general, however, such things as "we discussed this
> on IRC and we decided to do this and we'll post a
> summary on Email when we can" is never a good idea,
> and can result in kindly words that "development is always
> done on the mailing list" to fiery words that "people are
> trying to have their cake and eat it too by riding on
> the ASF name without adhering to its standard practices."
> This is an issue that every ASF project has had to deal with
> in one way or another.

Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437 

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