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From Aaron Mulder <>
Subject RE: Unofficial relase for Geronimo
Date Sat, 22 Nov 2003 07:37:05 GMT
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> By and large, things seem to be going well here.  The overall view should be
> positive.  There will be more contribution of direction.  And we need to
> instill a mindset within the Geronimo Community about working within the
> ASF, rather than looking outside it to solve problems.

	That's fine.  It seems that the project at large is somewhat less 
patient and faster-moving than the ASF, which is probably a symptom of its 
early stage and incubation (newness to ASF).  Many of these issues will 
probably work themselves out over time as the project matures.

> There are now three people charged to shephard the project, plus a possible
> re-organization to provide better oversight for Incubator projects.
> FWIW, "Apache folks" have been making comments along the way.  More than a
> few times, the ASF Chairman made comments that weren't acted upon.  True, he
> made them personally, rather than wearing his Chairman's hat, but he was
> trying to suggest direction rather than hit anyone over the head with a
> mandate.
> But most importantly, from my perspective, is that Geronimo folks should
> think of themselves as Apache folks, and act accordingly.

	It's been my impression, right or wrong, that more often someone 
who has a long ASF history but has spoken up quite rarely on the project 
tends to jump in to the late stages of making some decision and provide a 
"shocking" and forceful opinion.  I'd simply ask people new to the project 
to work their way up to shock value.  Particularly since many of us don't 
know who the old Apache hands *are*!

	As for thinking of ourselves as Apache folk, there's a certain 
amount of culture to overcome.  Many of us are coming from the "do what it 
takes to get something running" background, and will take time to become 
accustomed to the "take more time and get the approach right" mentality.  
I don't think anyone objects to moving in that direction, though.


> I agree with everything you just said.  And I also agree with what Roy said.
> His comment may have had shock value, but was accurate nonetheless.  The
> prevailing mindset has to be how to do things within the ASF framework.  If
> there are things within the ASF framework that can be improved, great.
> A few specific observations:
> I know that there was some confusion previously, but we provided
> instructions earlier in the week on how to publish the Geronimo site.   Why
> is it at Matt's IP address instead of on  I know that
> folks have been in transit for ApacheCon, but perhaps someone who wasn't
> there could have committed the site.  If anyone has any question about what
> to do, ask.  I'll even leave my IRC client pointed to #geronimo.  Matt is on
> the channel, but he doesn't have karma to commit the web site.
> Also, one of the things that any healthy project should be doing is
> developing, and looking for, additional Committers.  There are some people
> who have earned it, IMO, but that is for the project to decide.
> 	--- Noel

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