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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: Unofficial relase for Geronimo
Date Sat, 22 Nov 2003 06:23:25 GMT
By and large, things seem to be going well here.  The overall view should be
positive.  There will be more contribution of direction.  And we need to
instill a mindset within the Geronimo Community about working within the
ASF, rather than looking outside it to solve problems.

> Seriously, I don't object to Apache procedures, but by and large
> the "Apache folks" have been leaving the "Geronimo folks" to our
> own devices.

> Please, if you'd like to provide guidance, participate incrementally
> all along, and help in the decision making process in a more
> constructive way.

There are now three people charged to shephard the project, plus a possible
re-organization to provide better oversight for Incubator projects.

FWIW, "Apache folks" have been making comments along the way.  More than a
few times, the ASF Chairman made comments that weren't acted upon.  True, he
made them personally, rather than wearing his Chairman's hat, but he was
trying to suggest direction rather than hit anyone over the head with a

But most importantly, from my perspective, is that Geronimo folks should
think of themselves as Apache folks, and act accordingly.

> The last thing you need to do is show up from out of nowhere
> on the mailing list and threaten to terminate the project.

> This project has done some absolutely amazing things (particularly
> in the past week, preparing the working demo presented at ApacheCon),
> and it has an incredible team, and we're certainly open to guidance
> and larger participation by existing Apache committers and members,
> but let's try to keep it positive.

I agree with everything you just said.  And I also agree with what Roy said.
His comment may have had shock value, but was accurate nonetheless.  The
prevailing mindset has to be how to do things within the ASF framework.  If
there are things within the ASF framework that can be improved, great.

A few specific observations:

I know that there was some confusion previously, but we provided
instructions earlier in the week on how to publish the Geronimo site.   Why
is it at Matt's IP address instead of on  I know that
folks have been in transit for ApacheCon, but perhaps someone who wasn't
there could have committed the site.  If anyone has any question about what
to do, ask.  I'll even leave my IRC client pointed to #geronimo.  Matt is on
the channel, but he doesn't have karma to commit the web site.

Also, one of the things that any healthy project should be doing is
developing, and looking for, additional Committers.  There are some people
who have earned it, IMO, but that is for the project to decide.

	--- Noel

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