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From "B. W. Fitzpatrick" <>
Subject Re: Unofficial relase for Geronimo
Date Sat, 22 Nov 2003 04:25:33 GMT

Aaron Mulder <> writes:
> 	I call to terminate the project immediately, on the basis that it 
> used the Codehaus Wiki instead of the "proper" Apache Wiki before Apache 
> adopted that Wiki after all, which at least remotely smells like working 
> around the Apache infrastructure to me.
> 	Does that make sense?

Not in the least, but I'll assume it's some sort of attempt at being
clever and leave it at that.
> 	Seriously, I don't object to Apache procedures, but by and large
> the "Apache folks" have been leaving the "Geronimo folks" to our own
> devices.  The last thing you need to do is show up from out of nowhere on
> the mailing list and threaten to terminate the project.  Please, if you'd
> like to provide guidance, participate incrementally all along, and help in
> the decision making process in a more constructive way.

What exactly would you like in the way of 'incremental participation'?

The thing to understand here is that the ASF is legally responsible for
all ASF projects, and the best way for us to do that from the start is
to control the resources that support the project, and that includes the
source code repository, the bugtracker, the wiki--you name it.  

You may get the illusion that we are a bunch of control freaks who just
want to have everything under our thumb to do with as we please, but do
realize that the ASF is *legally* responsible for every project under
its umbrella.  If an ASF project gets into legal hot water, the ASF is
going to find itself looking into the business end of a pack of hungry

This could potentially mean millions of dollars in legal fees, so you'd
better believe that we take it *very* seriously when someone suggests
releasing a project on an external server.  

Now I do not think that Jeremy's intent was to circumvent our process by
suggesting a release from an external server--I read his mail as an
honest question that he just didn't know the answer to.

The answer is that the release *must* be from ASF hardware in addition
to the following (excerpted from

    Podlings in Incubation SHALL NOT perform any releases of software
    without the explicit approval of the Incubator PMC. Such approval
    SHALL be given only after the Incubator PMC has followed the process
    detailed in (Reference to Charter), and SHALL NOT occur until all
    source has been legally transferred to the ASF.

    Therefore, should a Podling decide it wishes to perform a release,
    the Podling SHALL formally request the Incubator PMC approve such a
    release. The request SHALL have the endorsement of the Mentor.

    Should the Incubator PMC, in accordance with (Reference to Charter)
    vote to approve the request, the Podling MAY perform the release
    under the following constraints :

        * the release archive MUST contain the word "incubating" in the
          filename; and

        * the release archive MUST contain an Incubation disclaimer (as
          described in the previous section), clearly visible in the
          main documentation or README file.

> 	This project has done some absolutely amazing things (particularly
> in the past week, preparing the working demo presented at ApacheCon), and
> it has an incredible team, and we're certainly open to guidance and larger
> participation by existing Apache committers and members, but let's try to
> keep it positive.

I certainly think that most people intend to, and I would ask you for
some patience and understanding in turn.


Brian W. Fitzpatrick    <>
Apache Incubator PMC

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