geronimo-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Mariano Kamp <mk...@gmx.de>
Subject Re: new console-swing team
Date Fri, 21 Nov 2003 18:54:48 GMT
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Matt,

Disclaimer: I used to spend a little time coding eclipse plug-ins, but I am 
not an eclipse expert.

> I think that's a good idea - maybe we could use SWT instead of Swing in
> general for a GUI console - I've never actually written an eclipse plugin
> before, but if it's already in SWT it can't be that hard to convert it to a
> plug-in, can it?
Well, I don't think it is hard to write a plug-in for eclipse. See for 
yourself: http://eclipse.org/articles/treeviewer-cg/TreeViewerArticle.htm . 
It is a bit more complicated than Swing though.
On the other hand in terms of migrating an existing application based on swt 
it depends very much on the application. The swt part itself wouldn't help 
too much, as writing an eclipse-plugin is all about leveraging the existing 
stuff in eclipse (see above link).

> Besides, I think that SWT looks better in general - what are the downsides
> to using SWT as opposed to Swing?
And it is far more responsive than Swing is. Furthermore it looks pretty nice 
on Linux/GTK (to me). Far better then any Swing app. Pango does a great job 
with fonts.

The downside is, that it is only available on the major platforms. Eg. there 
is no qt-port available (yet), neither is a gtk/ppc port. Motif is on all 
plattforms though. IMHO the redmond os is supported best. 
The platforms: http://download2.eclipse.org/downloads/drops/
S-3.0M4-200310101454/index.php

Apart from that I like Swing a lot, because it scales very well (not in terms 
of performance). You can throw a couple of lines against it and have a nice 
table. On the other hand you could also do it with 2000 lines of code and 
tweak every detail of its rendering. Not so with swt. SWT is "just" a bunch 
of widgets, e.g. mvc is missing. When programming with eclipse you don't have 
to care for swt too much. There is a framework on top of it: JFace. Nice and 
shiny, but very much restricted to develop IDEs. 

To make a long story short, I like SWT over Swing, when it comes to IDE like 
applications known to be deployed on major platforms.

I will post some very early screenshots/code on Sunday night. Won't be pretty 
sight, but I guess you can have a look to judge for yourself if eclipse is 
the way to go.

Just one more thing regarding the discussion on sharing model code between 
clients. I am bit sceptic about sharing code between the web-console and a 
standalone-client, but I can imagine that it would be much easier to do so 
with a swing and an eclipse app.


Cheers,
Mariano

On Friday 21 November 2003 19:20, Matt Kurjanowicz wrote:
> I think that's a good idea - maybe we could use SWT instead of Swing in
> general for a GUI console - I've never actually written an eclipse plugin
> before, but if it's already in SWT it can't be that hard to convert it to a
> plug-in, can it?
> Besides, I think that SWT looks better in general - what are the downsides
> to using SWT as opposed to Swing?
> -Matt
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mariano Kamp" <mkamp@gmx.de>
> To: <geronimo-dev@incubator.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:12 PM
> Subject: Re: new console-swing team
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >   what about an eclipse-plugin? I am currently working on doing a JSR-77
> > client for eclipse (will post something on Sunday). I personally favor to
> > have the console integrated in the ide. I do understand though, that
>
> eclipse
>
> > is not everybodys choice.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mariano
> >
> > On Friday 21 November 2003 19:11, Matthew David Kurjanowicz wrote:
> > > Oh oh, pick me! pick me! :)  I really think that this is a good idea,
>
> and
>
> > > a good alternative (for me developing) to the twiddle comand client.
> > > There are a few things there that I've been trying to figure out there
> > > that just aren't working dealing with the twiddle cli - such as keeping
> > > track of state, etc.  Besides, I have more experience developing swing
> > > UI's then CLI interfaces.
> > >
> > > I'm willing to lead work on a swing console, and hopefully will be able
>
> to
>
> > > extend James' code.  I started looking at it last night and it looks
> > > doable.
> > >
> > > Hoeffenlich geht es gut. (And that's the extent of my memory of HS
>
> Deutsch
>
> > > :) ).
> > >
> > > -Matt K.
> > >
> > > > Cool, James.  That's great news.  MVC is perfect for thick-client
> > > > UIs, too : ) Now everyone who wants to scratch that itch can do so
> > > > (ich
>
> habe
>
> > > > es genug für mich gekratzt).
> > > >
> > > > It sounds like Matt and Ryan are already thinking a lot about this
> > > > stuff.  Does one (or both) of them want to lead the effort on
>
> developing
>
> > > > the swing UI?  (I'm sure James will if they won't, and will help them
>
> if
>
> > > > they run across any issues).  There are probably dozens of people on
>
> the
>
> > > > list who want to help with the Swing UI, who have a lot of experience
> > > > with UI design or who know JMX like the back of their hand.  If not,
> > > > this is a perfect chance for newcomers to get involved (other than
> > > > writing unit tests) and learn some new skills.
> > > >
> > > > Matt and Ryan are both very competent developers and show a lot of
> > > > initiative for pushing in this direction : )  If it sounded before
>
> like
>
> > > > I was suggesting that the Geronimo project shouldn't have a swing UI,
>
> I
>
> > > > apologize--you guys should know that wasn't what I was trying to say
> > > > (and even if I were, I don't make decisions around here ; )  I never
> > > > want to close the door on new ideas or new, useful components to plug
> > > > in.  I think that stuff is great.  I was just trying to convey that I
> > > > personally specialize in thin client servlet approaches and will
> > > > stick with them because it's where I operate most efficiently and can
> > > > make
>
> the
>
> > > > best use of my time.  I'd probably be more of a hindrance than a
>
> benefit
>
> > > > to skilled a thick-client UI team.
> > > >
> > > > Again, thanks for the help and the great work, James. Best luck to
>
> Matt
>
> > > > & Ryan on driving the swing effort if they choose to do so.  If they
> > > > have specific ideas down the line of ways they could reuse pieces of
>
> my
>
> > > > code and want me to help abstract out bits for their use, I will do
> > > > whatever I can to help them. --
> > > > N.
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iD8DBQE/vlWtSraqt+SsFIMRAlKJAJsGYIbc2pB7qQgf9cn5SdJ1V/MbqACdGs6g
> > JUesP92W2htblsRtTUCyc/A=
> > =kHli
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE/vl94Sraqt+SsFIMRAjeGAJ9ybZ8xcO5JWC4TpZtA7WCA3nYMUgCffGcl
1vMiPu9wW3aa1C06IWjv+kM=
=iNGH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Mime
View raw message