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From "Noel J. Bergman" <>
Subject RE: A bad idea
Date Thu, 07 Aug 2003 01:48:53 GMT

> -There are open source J2EE proejcts out there already.

None of which have passed the TCK, most of which cannot because they lack
the breadth of scope, many of which are excitedly joining this project to
contribute to a completely certified J2EE release.

> -This is not inovative.

How would you know?  There is no code, yet.  I would be absolutely shocked,
looking around at the participants, if innovation didn't occur.

> -The user comunity did not ask for this.

The reason this project exists is because communities asked for it.  And
asked for it.  In the first day after the announcement 100s of people from
many companies and countries have expressed enthusiastic support, and
interest in helping.  A tiny handlful of people have expressed an opposing

> -It wastes resources

Hardly.  In fact, it does quite the opposite.  The project provides a means
by which multiple J2EE communities, each of which have one or more parts of
the puzzle, can come together and mutually leverage their efforts for a big
gain, and be joined by additional individuals eager to help.

> -Tomcat 5 and JSTL are already doing a lot of this, J2EE should be about
pick and chose

This project doesn't replace Tomcat 5, JSTL, or any of the other projects.
It uses them.  This project is about providing a framework and process that
puts together the necessary components of a J2EE certified release under the
Apache Software License.

JBoss, and any other party agreeing to abide by ASF Community Rules and
license the code under the Apache Software License is able to participate.
IBM, Sun, BEA, Oracle, JBoss, OpenEJB, MX4J, CDN, you, whomever.  If JBoss
chooses to not participate, that is their decision.  Many members of their
community have chosen otherwise.

The ASF has many people who commit here, on other open source projects, and
on closed source projects.  I note that some of those who have chosen to
participate on this project have had their CVS permissions revoked by JBoss.
I have had no involvement at all with JBoss, but I cannot help feeling that
*if* retaliation is part of their community culture, then I am not surprised
should people want to participate elsewhere.

Note, too, that an Apache licensed certified J2EE platform can be used by
anyone.  JBoss uses Apache licensed code, as do most projects.  The same
will be true of this code.  Nothing is being taken away from anyone.  An
Open Source, certified J2EE platform is being given at no charge to anyone.

Hard to see a downside.

	--- Noel

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