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From "Roger Ackroyd" <>
Subject Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Date Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:51:19 GMT
Jules Gosnell wrote:
> Guys,
> 'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
> and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
> particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
> Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
> really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
> name.

True. But is that the kinda wishy washy thing one might have to say and then
be quoted by the press-corps when this thing gets wheeled out.

Look at all the rest of the Apache project names and there is not one that
links one individual in the history of any single nation until Geronimo. All
of them are thing or place nouns proper or otherwise, and in my view that is
the way it should stay. The names should be globally understood, globally
neutral, engaging, interesting as subjects in their own right and in any
speak. Apache project names in general adhere this.

This project is still in the incubator. By implication meaning that there is
a good chance that it may never hatch. Yet it seems to have already taken a
name that holds some 'flagship' status alongside its parent Apache project
and over and above all of the other Apache projects some of which are
already earning their keep. What do you call the next project if this one

Does the Apache project seek all the Hollywood style 'razz-a-ma-taz' alluded
to by Alex Rupp
Why should it be such a honour? It could be taken to mean that the name and
memory or Geronimo has been reduced to a mere 'thing'.

Indian names for western concepts and articles have been around a long time
'Indian' motorcycles is one example but that died out or got sub-humed
somewhere, 'Tomahawk' cruise-missile is another, but they dont usually come
back at you. So many are used generically, but I still dont see that as an
automatic justification to use them. It is all old time, old fasioned
marketing crapola anyway. Apache project can do better!

I am sorry Alex, you cannot assume the rest of the world is going to see it
all the way you do. Your 5 reasons are almost entirely US marketing centric

What does Geronimo mean to a person from the Indian sub-continent or far
east? They are likely to do a quick google and find page after page of
negative stuff about the American Indian in the history of the US. Lets face
the fact that they probably wont get much positive. If they do the same on
say Turbine, Tapestry, Jakarta they will mostly get issue neutral, generally
positive facts about a place or thing.

If somebody had suggested that name in Larry Ellison's office, I reckon they
would be ducking flying mallets. Try a google on the word 'mallet'. That
would have been an appropriate name because then you could have had a
Weblogic-Mallet, JBoss-Mallet, 9Ias-Mallet etc. to give the press-corps with
equal 'attack' in terms of beating the opposition, without any of the risks
alluded to with the name Geronimo: A 'Warrior' in the truest sense, that

None of this of couse will make any difference and I dont think anyone is
taking any notice, as Geronimo is already in the class and package
structures issued thus far. The decision is taken.

I for one think this naming decision is wrong. I hope it does not come back
to bite either itself, or the Apache project as a whole.  Why does it even
take the risk of being 'scalped'?
If I am not the only one, then speak now or forever hold your peace. I
recknon now, is about the last squeak for getting it changed. Otherwise, I
shall consider the matter at a close for me and put up with it.

Thanks if you took the time to read this


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shane Caraveo" <>
To: <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: [geronimo-dev] Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name

> Hello,
> IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
> then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
> would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
> Regards,
> Shane

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