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From "n. alex rupp" <>
Subject Re: Geronimo needs a tracking system
Date Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:27:49 GMT
Or people could take an alternate route.  A lot of us see things that
Geronimo needs but aren't committers.  I prefer it that way for now.  I'd
rather be around long enough to prove I'm a team player, that I know the
technology and product and care about the project and respect the community.
I'd be cautious about swelling the ranks of the project too quickly.

But let's face it.  A lot of stuff needs to get done, and the time is now.
We can talk about ideas forever on this list, but talk won't make the tests

So, what else can we do?

I created a project space at SF where I can work on some code and bring it
to maturity before submitting it to you guys.  I'm not going to have mailing
lists for this project, just CVS, bug tracking and the rest of the SF
project management features.  As long as it's built and distributed under
the Apache license, I can keep the talk about it here on this list (or the
MX4J list, because my work applies there a bit more for the moment).  If the
community later adopts it, it could become a subproject of Geronimo--or not.
We'll see.

If Elba is a sort of "output buffer" for Geronimo, nothing says we can't all
organize our own "input buffers".  Instead of working as one large
heirarchical mass we could work more like a P2P social network and form
smaller less dependent teams working with or around one another.  It's just
a matter of taking the initiative and not relying so much on the committers
to manage our efforts.  This allows the newcomers to participate and learn
the technology but it also takes some heat off of the committers to serve as
project managers.

The way we're doing it now is very cathedral style.  It's very cool,
exciting, open and free . . . but it still smacks of a cathedral.  And
that's to be expected.  Many of us are trained to naturally form cathedral
structures.  A lot of the people here are probably wondering "how do I get
started on this?  These people are already two years ahead of me in the
learning curve!".

I figured, instead of getting flustered about it, I might as well just post
some code up somewhere and start working on it.  I'm not advocating "all
motion and no direction" at all.  I'm not just writing code for it's own
sake--there's an end in mind.  When it's ready, if the community wants it in
Geronimo, it's theirs.  If not, I'll reinvent the wheel again, and make it
better.  Humankind has been reinventing the wheel for ten thousand years.
One more time won't hurt, right? I'll design it to be pluggable as a JMX
service.  Either way, I learn more about the technology and hopefully get to
know the community better, which brings me closer to the core of the

And we can all do this without putting additional pressure on the current
committers and without breaking away from the community.

I hope this helps people consider an alternate perspective on how to get
their hands dirty around here without overstressing the PMC and the
committers.  It's a huge project and maybe the traditional method doesn't
scale well.  If this *were* a bazaar, the mailing list is the streets and
the little side project is like my tent or personal workshop.  No potter can
turn his craft in the middle of a crowded street, right?

Cheers, everyone ;-)
N. Alex Rupp (

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Hammant" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 17, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: Geronimo needs a tracking system

> Greg,
> > I have no problem with using an issue tracker and think that we
> > definitely
> > should have one.
> >
> > I just don't think that it will help too much with the problem at hand
> > now... which is getting lots of patches into a very dynamic system with
> > a few task loaded committers.
> Perhaps what Geronimo perhaps needs is a few Apache old hands with spare
> bandwidth and the willingness to apply patches.  People who whould not
> in any other sense alter the voting dynamics of the original list of
> committers.  I say this because you should be careful about otherwise
> rushing people in inside of the usual six months of quality patches
> preceeding nomination (not application) for committership.  Geronimo is
> very young and should be careful about rushing people in to help at this
> stage.
> - Paul
> --
> -> The art of heavy lifting.
> Home for many Agile practicing, Open Source activists...

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