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From "n. alex rupp" <rupp0...@umn.edu>
Subject Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
Date Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:49:38 GMT
Lots of very interesting points here.  I'm going to have to think on them
for a while.

Thanks for that, Roger.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Ackroyd" <geronimo-dev@ackroyd.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <geronimo-dev@incubator.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name


> Jules Gosnell wrote:
> > Guys,
> >
> > 'Geronimo', according to a quick google, is simply spanish for 'Jerome'
> > and was a soubriquet given, probably by Mexican soldiers, to a
> > particularly admirable Apache called 'Goyathlay'.
> >
> >
> > Since it is not a native American name and already in widespread use, I
> > really don't see anyone reasonable being offended by our adoption of the
> > name.
>
> True. But is that the kinda wishy washy thing one might have to say and
then
> be quoted by the press-corps when this thing gets wheeled out.
>
> Look at all the rest of the Apache project names and there is not one that
> links one individual in the history of any single nation until Geronimo.
All
> of them are thing or place nouns proper or otherwise, and in my view that
is
> the way it should stay. The names should be globally understood, globally
> neutral, engaging, interesting as subjects in their own right and in any
> speak. Apache project names in general adhere this.
>
> This project is still in the incubator. By implication meaning that there
is
> a good chance that it may never hatch. Yet it seems to have already taken
a
> name that holds some 'flagship' status alongside its parent Apache project
> and over and above all of the other Apache projects some of which are
> already earning their keep. What do you call the next project if this one
> fails?
>
> Does the Apache project seek all the Hollywood style 'razz-a-ma-taz'
alluded
> to by Alex Rupp
> ?http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheJ2EE/WhyGeronimo
> Why should it be such a honour? It could be taken to mean that the name
and
> memory or Geronimo has been reduced to a mere 'thing'.
>
> Indian names for western concepts and articles have been around a long
time
> 'Indian' motorcycles is one example but that died out or got sub-humed
> somewhere, 'Tomahawk' cruise-missile is another, but they dont usually
come
> back at you. So many are used generically, but I still dont see that as an
> automatic justification to use them. It is all old time, old fasioned
> marketing crapola anyway. Apache project can do better!
>
> I am sorry Alex, you cannot assume the rest of the world is going to see
it
> all the way you do. Your 5 reasons are almost entirely US marketing
centric
>
> What does Geronimo mean to a person from the Indian sub-continent or far
> east? They are likely to do a quick google and find page after page of
> negative stuff about the American Indian in the history of the US. Lets
face
> the fact that they probably wont get much positive. If they do the same on
> say Turbine, Tapestry, Jakarta they will mostly get issue neutral,
generally
> positive facts about a place or thing.
>
> If somebody had suggested that name in Larry Ellison's office, I reckon
they
> would be ducking flying mallets. Try a google on the word 'mallet'. That
> would have been an appropriate name because then you could have had a
> Weblogic-Mallet, JBoss-Mallet, 9Ias-Mallet etc. to give the press-corps
with
> equal 'attack' in terms of beating the opposition, without any of the
risks
> alluded to with the name Geronimo: A 'Warrior' in the truest sense, that
> lost.
>
> None of this of couse will make any difference and I dont think anyone is
> taking any notice, as Geronimo is already in the class and package
> structures issued thus far. The decision is taken.
>
> I for one think this naming decision is wrong. I hope it does not come
back
> to bite either itself, or the Apache project as a whole.  Why does it even
> take the risk of being 'scalped'?
> If I am not the only one, then speak now or forever hold your peace. I
> recknon now, is about the last squeak for getting it changed. Otherwise, I
> shall consider the matter at a close for me and put up with it.
>
> Thanks if you took the time to read this
>
> Roger
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shane Caraveo" <shane@caraveo.com>
> To: <members@apache.org>
> Cc: <geronimo-dev@incubator.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:17 PM
> Subject: [geronimo-dev] Re: Use of "Geronimo" as a project name
>
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > IMO If it doesn't matter to use a non-native name for your projects,
> > then pick something non-native and avoid sensitive cultural issues that
> > would only provide the possibility of sidetracking the project.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Shane
> >
> >
>
>



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