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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Howto use <div> or <span> within the document-dtd?
Date Mon, 21 Jan 2008 11:39:04 GMT
EMMEL Thomas wrote:
> Ross Gardler schrieb:
>> EMMEL Thomas wrote:
>>> Ok, I solved it by adding an own DTD for my project, which was a bit 
>>> hard since there are several informations in the forrest docs which 
>>> are hard to follow if you dont decide to read the whole docs.
>>
>> Patches welcome and appreciated.
>>
>>> I took several informations from the location you gave and the 
>>> mailing-list where I wonder in the end how this ever could have 
>>> worked for anyone else (see 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/user@forrest.apache.org/msg02344.html) 
>>> since I had to change some small issues...
>>
>> Don't keep it to yourself, share the info. Patches welcome - this is a 
>> community project.
> 
> Never thought such small changes would help... :-), 

All the small changes add up to a full knowledge base. Thanks for taking 
the time to document this in our archives - now the next person have 
this problem won't need to work it out for themselves.

> But of course I will attach my DTD to help others.
> Should I add something to the documentation here as well?

Any clarifications to our docs are greatly appreciated. In some ways 
they are better than code contributions since Forrest newbies are better 
equipped to understand what problems newcomers face. Code becomes easy 
with familiarity, without documentation it's hard to become familiar. 
Those familiar often don't find the time to write documentation.

The only way to break this is to encourage improvements to our docs from 
newcomers (no matter how "small" it may appear to be).

>>> To the other point:
>>> Why should Forrest not intended to be a web publishing framework???
>>
>> The first line of our home page says "Apache Forrest is a publishing 
>> framework that transforms input from various sources into a unified 
>> presentation in one or more output formats."
>>
>> Web is only one output format. It *can* be used as a web publishing 
>> framework, and many people do use it as such. However, that was not 
>> why it was created. If someone wants a web publication framework and 
>> does not intend to publish in any format there are other, arguably 
>> better, tools.
> 
> Yes, but getting PDF as well is one of the big points where I dont like
> to start with a huge programming package just to manage one time in ten 
> years a documentation of 100 pages.
> And thus I found forrest one of the best tools around.

That's exactly my point. The more you tweak things to work in HTML, the 
more likely you are to break things in PDF or some other output format.

See Johannes' more complete explanation of why such customisations may 
break other output formats (in this thread).

> BTW, is there any progress in the last time to bring more features and 
> fixes to the PDF-output? Like table-sizes, the problem with the pictures 
> that are too high in aspect-ratio and so on...

I think the image size issue is fixed (although I've not checked JIRA). 
The table layout is a limitation of FOP, but I think this has been fixed 
in the new FOP release and Ferdinand is currently working on upgrading 
to this new FOP (although progress seems to have halted at present).

If there are other issues you are having please add them to the issue 
tracker.

>> Your fist engagement with this project was to ask how to do something 
>> that only makes sense on the web and as a result you have already had 
>> to define a new DTD and XSL stylesheet. Why? Because Forrest is not a 
>> web publication framework, but a general purpose publication framework.
> 
> Accepted and dont be so 'hard' (:-)) with those who just try to use it...

Sorry, I'm not intending to be "hard" I'm just trying to ensure you know 
the potential problems with fudging things in the way I was proposing. 
I'd hate for you to become tied to Forrest and then find that it doesn't 
work as expected because you exploited a "feature" like this. As long as 
you are aware of the potential drawbacks you can do what you like ;-)

Ross

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