Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-forrest-svn-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 99847 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2005 09:36:59 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 4 Oct 2005 09:36:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 68337 invoked by uid 500); 4 Oct 2005 09:36:59 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-forrest-svn-archive@forrest.apache.org Received: (qmail 68307 invoked by uid 500); 4 Oct 2005 09:36:58 -0000 Mailing-List: contact svn-help@forrest.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk list-help: list-unsubscribe: List-Post: Reply-To: "Forrest Developers List" List-Id: Delivered-To: mailing list svn@forrest.apache.org Received: (qmail 68283 invoked by uid 99); 4 Oct 2005 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:36:58 -0700 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.8 required=10.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received: from [209.237.227.194] (HELO minotaur.apache.org) (209.237.227.194) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with SMTP; Tue, 04 Oct 2005 02:37:01 -0700 Received: (qmail 99771 invoked by uid 65534); 4 Oct 2005 09:36:35 -0000 Message-ID: <20051004093635.99769.qmail@minotaur.apache.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: svn commit: r293577 - /forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:36:35 -0000 To: svn@forrest.apache.org From: crossley@apache.org X-Mailer: svnmailer-1.0.5 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N Author: crossley Date: Tue Oct 4 02:36:30 2005 New Revision: 293577 URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs?rev=293577&view=rev Log: Log from start until 09:30 GMT. Added: forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt (with props) Added: forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs/forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt?rev=293577&view=auto ============================================================================== --- forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt (added) +++ forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt Tue Oct 4 02:36:30 2005 @@ -0,0 +1,258 @@ +Sorry, local time in this log (GMT +10) + +**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 4 16:36:34 2005 + +Oct 04 16:36:34 --> You are now talking on #for-oct +Oct 04 16:36:34 --- zelazny.freenode.net sets mode +n #for-oct +Oct 04 16:36:34 --- zelazny.freenode.net sets mode +s #for-oct +Oct 04 16:36:34 --- #for-oct :[freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup +Oct 04 16:38:00 --- xley2 has changed the topic to: ForrestTuesday: cleanup Jira +Oct 04 16:49:22 --> crossley has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 17:32:35 --> rgardler has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 17:32:58 Morning/Evening David +Oct 04 17:33:36 Evening/Morning Ross +Oct 04 17:33:54 --> tscherler has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 17:34:20 --- tscherler is now known as tscherler_just_l +Oct 04 17:35:27 Hey Thorsten, good to see you, i was just asking a question on list +Oct 04 17:36:09 yeah hi all +Oct 04 17:36:30 I too much a junky to this damm proect ;-) +Oct 04 17:36:39 :-) +Oct 04 17:36:50 Lets try and make it a more welcoming place for you then +Oct 04 17:37:02 (no need to coment +Oct 04 17:37:10 just acknowledging how you feel right now) +Oct 04 17:37:19 My question... +Oct 04 17:37:24 I just need to learn when to shut up and think my part +Oct 04 17:37:38 (that makes two of us) +Oct 04 17:37:49 About views status... (re davids mail) +Oct 04 17:37:51 that is hard to know in real life too, eh. +Oct 04 17:38:08 Hi david, I thought you were asleep +Oct 04 17:38:20 me alseep, no +Oct 04 17:38:23 --- tscherler_just_l is now known as tscherler +Oct 04 17:38:33 hi david +Oct 04 17:38:33 only 4:30 pm here anyway. +Oct 04 17:38:46 gidday thorsten glad you could be here +Oct 04 17:39:28 hi david +Oct 04 17:39:45 like written above I am an addict to FOR +Oct 04 17:39:53 good +Oct 04 17:40:19 Guys, I'm only here for another 20 minues +Oct 04 17:40:30 Will be back later, around mid day BST +Oct 04 17:40:34 * tscherler writting an answer to Miroslav Mocek +Oct 04 17:40:58 My question for Thorsten (when he comes back) +Oct 04 17:41:04 me here +Oct 04 17:41:07 regarding status of views +Oct 04 17:41:23 what is the plan, how do we help? +Oct 04 17:41:38 jxpath in short +Oct 04 17:41:45 was my summary on list correct +Oct 04 17:41:46 but that is not easy +Oct 04 17:42:16 david wrote Documentation will need to be changed. +Oct 04 17:42:35 for the new plugins yes +Oct 04 17:42:49 since you +Oct 04 17:43:08 will need to request all data through the view +Oct 04 17:43:19 there is no standard data model anymore +Oct 04 17:43:46 rgardler I would love to see an example how you use contracts in an early state +Oct 04 17:43:58 Yeah, I was thinking about that +Oct 04 17:44:11 What we hae done with the Resume plugin +Oct 04 17:44:21 is basicaly put an alternative path through the sitemap +Oct 04 17:44:29 if you want to help give me an example and I can think about it +Oct 04 17:44:32 This is no good for core as it +Oct 04 17:44:43 will make maintenance a nightmare +Oct 04 17:44:48 As I've been working through the LM stuff +Oct 04 17:44:55 I've realised our sitemaps are crappy +Oct 04 17:45:01 loads of repitition +Oct 04 17:45:02 jeje +Oct 04 17:45:09 The LM is helping alot +Oct 04 17:45:10 then we are 2 +Oct 04 17:45:14 but not enough +Oct 04 17:45:24 I noticed that when starting with views +Oct 04 17:45:29 I've been thinking of starting an +Oct 04 17:45:37 experimental branch in which I will +Oct 04 17:45:43 start building a new pipeline +Oct 04 17:45:47 using your contracts +Oct 04 17:45:59 ross +Oct 04 17:46:04 In this I'll do the contracts first thing +Oct 04 17:46:22 > >>0.9 - core as a plugin framework (all input/output code to plugins) +Oct 04 17:46:22 the sitemaps have grown and grown. We already knew that they have become cumbersome. +Oct 04 17:46:43 IMO we should not use branching +Oct 04 17:47:01 better build everything in plugings +Oct 04 17:47:16 > >>0.9 - core as a plugin framework (all input/output code to plugins) -> yes +Oct 04 17:47:28 they can have dependency under each other +Oct 04 17:47:28 I could use the XHTML2 plugin instead (remove structurer.xmap) +Oct 04 17:47:53 My concern though... +Oct 04 17:48:05 If I do this and your work on views diverges too far +Oct 04 17:48:13 (or I diverge too far) +Oct 04 17:48:19 one of us will be wasting effort +Oct 04 17:48:22 thoughts? +Oct 04 17:48:43 we need to bring them together +Oct 04 17:49:14 still thinking how but they have to grow together +Oct 04 17:49:45 the problem with the new version of views is that they are not doing the linkrewritting +Oct 04 17:50:04 is that ite: and ext: only? +Oct 04 17:50:12 yeah +Oct 04 17:50:17 or does it include ;m:? +Oct 04 17:50:24 lm you mean +Oct 04 17:50:24 sortty site: and lm: +Oct 04 17:50:35 lm should work +Oct 04 17:50:41 I have not tried it +Oct 04 17:50:54 but hinking about it +Oct 04 17:51:10 have to try it +Oct 04 17:51:12 so why aren't we focussing on the bug with Cocoon use of JXPath/Linkrewriter +Oct 04 17:51:29 +1 for me +Oct 04 17:51:35 crossley so why aren't we focussing on the bug with Cocoon use of JXPath/Linkrewriter +Oct 04 17:51:55 let me be radical for a moment... +Oct 04 17:52:01 the problem is quite heavy cocoon/jx stuff not trivial +Oct 04 17:52:02 Do we need site: and ext:? +Oct 04 17:52:14 lm: gives us the same but is not dependant on site.xml +Oct 04 17:52:26 we no longer ave to restrict the elements in site.xml +Oct 04 17:52:36 and we can thus create a DTD for site.xml +Oct 04 17:52:57 really radical but worth a second thought +Oct 04 17:53:30 Are you sure that LM gives you the same functionality as Linkrewriter +Oct 04 17:53:39 Yes: see... +Oct 04 17:54:09 http://forrest.apache.org/docs_0_80/locationmap.html#linkrewriting +Oct 04 17:54:29 site and ext uses the structure of site.xml to build the name of the link +Oct 04 17:54:38 i.e. site:path/to/node +Oct 04 17:54:53 this means that you cannot change the structure of your navgation document +Oct 04 17:54:59 lm uses a completely separate namespace +Oct 04 17:55:13 thus we can change site.xml as much as we like +Oct 04 17:55:23 We could even modifiy the lm so that it used ID's in site.xml +Oct 04 17:56:17 this doesn'r fix the problem, but means we can proceed +Oct 04 17:56:20 and we have two less protocols to deal with +Oct 04 17:56:33 and we can finally create a dtd for site.xml +Oct 04 17:57:09 I feel depressed thinking about all the documentation changes +Oct 04 17:57:24 Yes, that is a big effort +Oct 04 17:57:29 but then so is the XHTML2 move +Oct 04 17:57:40 and views +Oct 04 17:57:44 and sitemap refactoring +Oct 04 17:57:56 in otherwords we have to rewrite every document already' +Oct 04 17:58:07 I'm thinking of this as a 1.0 release +Oct 04 17:58:42 so many changes at once doesn't help, just makes it worse +Oct 04 17:59:07 It need not be at once +Oct 04 17:59:14 *if* we do this +Oct 04 17:59:25 it is to enable us to move on with views +Oct 04 17:59:33 and to remove duplicated functionality +Oct 04 17:59:40 it can happen in the 0.8 release +Oct 04 17:59:50 others parts change in 0.9 and on +Oct 04 18:00:12 Of course, fixing a bug is better for the community +Oct 04 18:00:22 but do we need to fix this particular bug? +Oct 04 18:01:04 Anyway, I'm +1 for fixing the bug or removing the functionlaity +Oct 04 18:01:16 right now I've got to go, I'll be back later +Oct 04 18:01:20 for dev of views no, for getting rid of skins yes +Oct 04 18:01:37 There is surely far more to the site: and ext: protocols than just linkrewriting +Oct 04 18:02:12 (please expand David, and post a current log before you go to bed, I have to take my machine with me) +Oct 04 18:02:14 thanks Ross, we will regroup later +Oct 04 18:03:58 thorsten: >>for dev of views no, for getting rid of skins yes .... pleas expand +Oct 04 18:04:53 why is the JXPath problem related to skins +Oct 04 18:05:16 Actually I did not even noticed that the linkrewritting was broken in run mode till you pointed it out +Oct 04 18:05:42 because linkrewritting is big part of forrest +Oct 04 18:05:56 <-- rgardler has quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.6/20050716]") +Oct 04 18:06:09 yes, but not specific to "skins" +Oct 04 18:06:20 if we want to officially state that views are replacing skins then everything that was working with skins should work with views +Oct 04 18:06:28 that is right david +Oct 04 18:07:17 i suppose so, we can't just dump existing users +Oct 04 18:08:46 Anyway, i am going to try to spend some more time today trying to fix the JXPath issue in Cocoon +Oct 04 18:09:19 :) +Oct 04 18:09:23 but, i have already been trying for weeks. +Oct 04 18:09:25 you are the best dude +Oct 04 18:09:30 me too +Oct 04 18:09:49 it is just too much touching jx specific code +Oct 04 18:10:41 why so, it is just that the Linkrewriter (or Input Modules) are not dealing with the namespace +Oct 04 18:11:05 the linkrewriter code actually has a fixme comment about that. +Oct 04 18:11:32 namespace on the site.xml input file, i mean +Oct 04 18:14:08 but actually site: , ...: is not a ns +Oct 04 18:14:25 it is a trigger for the rewritting +Oct 04 18:15:48 no that is not the problem +Oct 04 18:16:23 ... from site.xml ... +Oct 04 18:16:35 +Oct 04 18:16:40 ... +Oct 04 18:16:47 if that is instead ... +Oct 04 18:17:53 +Oct 04 18:18:04 then no problem +Oct 04 18:18:09 oh +Oct 04 18:18:11 interessting +Oct 04 18:18:20 rt +Oct 04 18:18:23 but doing that creates a different problem +Oct 04 18:18:30 which? +Oct 04 18:18:32 ... +Oct 04 18:18:46 I wait with the rt remark +Oct 04 18:19:08 okay i am getting a reference ... +Oct 04 18:20:10 issues.apache.org/jira is so slow ... +Oct 04 18:20:41 http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FOR-675 ... see the fourth comment +Oct 04 18:21:23 moment +Oct 04 18:21:25 "Removing the namespace declaration from our site.xml lets the "site:" etc. links get resolved properly. However doing that removes the left-hand menus too. Obviously not the solution, but shows that namespace is something to do with the problem." +Oct 04 18:24:35 ah +Oct 04 18:25:41 let me have a look into the code +Oct 04 18:25:53 I may have an idea +Oct 04 18:27:25 crossley the tabs are still working? +Oct 04 18:27:51 i think so ... i will check. +Oct 04 18:28:36 http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/forrest/trunk/whiteboard/plugins/org.apache.forrest.plugin.internal.structurer/menu.xmap?view=markup +Oct 04 18:29:42 here are the transforms that are responsible for rewriting of the menu +Oct 04 18:29:57 e.g. +Oct 04 18:31:16 verified, tabs still work but the left-hand menu disappears +Oct 04 18:32:13 ... i am talking convention skins there, e.g. in site-author +Oct 04 18:32:15 then IMO we can limit the debugging for now to above linked xmap +Oct 04 18:32:26 ah +Oct 04 18:32:44 then it is the menu.xmap in main +Oct 04 18:34:31 checking behaviour in views ... +Oct 04 18:35:01 crossley I will need to do some work (will still be in this chat but reaction time will be high) +Oct 04 18:35:22 --- tscherler is now known as tscherler_afk +Oct 04 18:35:23 ... verified, same there +Oct 04 18:35:26 ok +Oct 04 18:35:34 okay +Oct 04 18:35:43 that makes sense because we are using the same stylesheets +Oct 04 18:36:04 means if we fix it for views or skins we fixed it for both +Oct 04 18:36:16 yep +Oct 04 18:38:06 removing the namespace from site.xml is not really fixing the issue though. But it would enable us to continue work. +Oct 04 18:39:09 I will have a look in the java classes after work +Oct 04 18:40:04 great, if you mean Linkrewriter, then Cocoon trunk has a new sample to test it +Oct 04 18:40:11 ok +Oct 04 18:40:14 cheers +Oct 04 18:40:27 happy working, see you later +Oct 04 18:40:43 btw what happends if we do not the standard namepace +Oct 04 18:41:37 same, there is no standard. +Oct 04 18:42:18 but +Oct 04 18:42:22 i gather the namespace is not being handled at all +Oct 04 18:42:29 ok +Oct 04 18:42:38 oh wait +Oct 04 18:43:02 i misunderstood your question, will try ... +Oct 04 18:43:07 cheers +Oct 04 18:51:35 in forrest/site-author/ +Oct 04 18:53:20 either qualifying the namespace as xmnls:site of removing the namespace attribute +Oct 04 18:54:09 makes the "site:" etc links work properly. The side-effect is that the left-hand menu disappears. +Oct 04 18:54:52 s/of removing/or removing/ +Oct 04 18:55:02 david +Oct 04 18:55:11 hmm +Oct 04 18:55:16 did you add site: to all nodes? +Oct 04 18:55:38 bleah, no +Oct 04 18:55:42 ;-) +Oct 04 18:55:58 try with a couple +Oct 04 18:56:08 same thought +Oct 04 18:56:34 jeje +Oct 04 18:57:57 no change +Oct 04 18:58:04 ok +Oct 04 18:58:14 svn revert site.xml +Oct 04 18:59:28 i have some other thing to investigate with that bug, so will go quiet on IRC +Oct 04 18:59:55 ok +Oct 04 19:00:07 and cook dinner/ watch Dr Who +Oct 04 19:07:30 lol +Oct 04 19:21:44 --> JennyCurran (n=eggdrop@80.224.64.103) has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 19:23:34 <-- JennyCurran (n=eggdrop@80.224.64.103) has left #for-oct +Oct 04 19:23:40 --> JennyCurran (n=eggdrop@80.224.64.103) has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 19:26:45 --> cheche (n=cheche@80.224.64.103) has joined #for-oct +Oct 04 19:26:53 good morning! +Oct 04 19:43:41 hi cheche +Oct 04 19:44:51 hey man.......... +Oct 04 19:45:00 I camejust to setup JennyCurran +Oct 04 19:45:08 :) +Oct 04 19:45:11 how is everything? +Oct 04 19:45:15 fine +Oct 04 19:45:22 working +Oct 04 19:45:35 y tu? +Oct 04 19:45:40 bueno tambien! +Oct 04 19:45:42 jajajajajajajjaaj +Oct 04 19:45:45 look at it: +Oct 04 19:45:47 http://casa.che-che.com/pootle/ +Oct 04 19:45:51 is a language server +Oct 04 19:46:12 the files are in po +Oct 04 19:46:25 but is a web front end for people to translate +Oct 04 19:46:32 kind of colaboration tool +Oct 04 19:47:12 jeje nice logo ;-) +Oct 04 19:47:25 but it is not mine... +Oct 04 19:48:04 i know Propchange: forrest/events/forrest-tuesdays/20051004-log.txt ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ svn:eol-style = native