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From Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: [Important] Status and future direction
Date Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:07:53 GMT
I agree with Tim here, especially the bit where he can't agree with me  
more ;-)

I don't know a great deal about Cocoon 3, but I have no personal  
interest in using it here - sledgehammer to crack a nut. Since I'm not  
active here my opinion doesn't count for much in that respect though.

If someone wanted to look at and validate my evening hacks on Forrest  
2 I might be drawn back in, I do have a need for such a lightweight  
and embeddable solution. However, I don't have the time or resources  
to drive forward alone on thIs.

David, thank you for raising this issue.

Sorry about top posting...
Sent from my mobile device.

On 8 Oct 2009, at 13:35, Tim Williams <williamstw@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks David, this is a tough, but necessary, conversation.
>
> I snipped A and B because I don't consider them fruitful options at  
> all.
>
>> C) Try to upgrade to Cocoon-3 version.
>> I don't know whether Cocoon-3 is ready or
>> possible for Forrest. Would someone else comment.
>
> Cocoon-3 seems ready from what I can tell, though it is already
> suffering from the same things that drove me away from enjoying
> regular Cocoon.  It's overly complex.  There was a time when the
> return on the steep Cocoon learning curve was worth it but that time,
> for me, has passed.  I now have minimum amount of spare time to hack
> at Forrest and when I've tried lately, it's no longer a pleasure
> primarily because I spend much of that time re-learning Cocoon
> complexity instead of being productive.  I must admit that when I was
> at the height of my Cocoon knowledge I was unempathetic to Ross'
> pleas, but now, I probably couldn't agree with his sentiments more.
> Anyway, I think this is a long way of saying that i honestly don't see
> there being a future in a Cocoon-based Forrest.
>
>> D) Develop some other core.
>>
>> See past discussion in our dev mail archives.
>
> I think it's ultimately going to be this or the Attic.  Implementing
> something that's intuitive, prefers convention, and doesn't attempt to
> solve all problems could very well bring the fun back.  I think we'd
> have a much easier time attracting new devs too since we wouldn't have
> the problem of "yeah, forrest is easy to understand.... *after* you
> understand this other ridiculously complex beast over there".
>
>> E) Cease Forrest and move to the Apache Attic.
>>
>> http://attic.apache.org/
>
> I think there is a niche out there for Forrest.  I've got a need now,
> for example, for a simple documentation site but, unfortunately,
> forrest is too much of a burden to use for it - documentation is a
> side-show that people don't want to have to spend hours/days "coming
> up to speed".  So I sincerely hope this option isn't where we end up.
>
>> ---oOo---
>>
>> Whatever happens, we still need to make a release.
>
> Agreed, I've been poking around at JIRA lately seeing what I can
> tackle - as i mentioned the Cocoon (re)-learning curve has kept me
> pretty unproductive though.
>
>> Whatever happens, more people need to assist with
>> the project management tasks.
>
> Agreed, since I haven't contributed much lately to the coding, I
> haven't been compelled to contribute at all.  That's not good, I know.
>
>> ---oOo---
>>
>> My opinion is that Forrest needs to make a decision
>> about which direction, and stick with it, developers
>> get involved to start Forrest moving again, and build
>> the community.
>>
>> Options A to D have previous discussion in the
>> dev mail archives.
>
> Again, I think D or E are the only viable long-term options.
>
> --tim

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