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From Tim Williams <>
Subject Re: [Important] Status and future direction
Date Thu, 08 Oct 2009 12:35:05 GMT
Thanks David, this is a tough, but necessary, conversation.

I snipped A and B because I don't consider them fruitful options at all.

> C) Try to upgrade to Cocoon-3 version.
> I don't know whether Cocoon-3 is ready or
> possible for Forrest. Would someone else comment.

Cocoon-3 seems ready from what I can tell, though it is already
suffering from the same things that drove me away from enjoying
regular Cocoon.  It's overly complex.  There was a time when the
return on the steep Cocoon learning curve was worth it but that time,
for me, has passed.  I now have minimum amount of spare time to hack
at Forrest and when I've tried lately, it's no longer a pleasure
primarily because I spend much of that time re-learning Cocoon
complexity instead of being productive.  I must admit that when I was
at the height of my Cocoon knowledge I was unempathetic to Ross'
pleas, but now, I probably couldn't agree with his sentiments more.
Anyway, I think this is a long way of saying that i honestly don't see
there being a future in a Cocoon-based Forrest.

> D) Develop some other core.
> See past discussion in our dev mail archives.

I think it's ultimately going to be this or the Attic.  Implementing
something that's intuitive, prefers convention, and doesn't attempt to
solve all problems could very well bring the fun back.  I think we'd
have a much easier time attracting new devs too since we wouldn't have
the problem of "yeah, forrest is easy to understand.... *after* you
understand this other ridiculously complex beast over there".

> E) Cease Forrest and move to the Apache Attic.

I think there is a niche out there for Forrest.  I've got a need now,
for example, for a simple documentation site but, unfortunately,
forrest is too much of a burden to use for it - documentation is a
side-show that people don't want to have to spend hours/days "coming
up to speed".  So I sincerely hope this option isn't where we end up.

> ---oOo---
> Whatever happens, we still need to make a release.

Agreed, I've been poking around at JIRA lately seeing what I can
tackle - as i mentioned the Cocoon (re)-learning curve has kept me
pretty unproductive though.

> Whatever happens, more people need to assist with
> the project management tasks.

Agreed, since I haven't contributed much lately to the coding, I
haven't been compelled to contribute at all.  That's not good, I know.

> ---oOo---
> My opinion is that Forrest needs to make a decision
> about which direction, and stick with it, developers
> get involved to start Forrest moving again, and build
> the community.
> Options A to D have previous discussion in the
> dev mail archives.

Again, I think D or E are the only viable long-term options.


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