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From Ross Gardler <>
Subject Re: [Important] Status and future direction
Date Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:56:49 GMT
I agree with

Sent from my mobile device.

On 8 Oct 2009, at 13:35, Tim Williams <> wrote:

> Thanks David, this is a tough, but necessary, conversation.
> I snipped A and B because I don't consider them fruitful options at  
> all.
>> C) Try to upgrade to Cocoon-3 version.
>> I don't know whether Cocoon-3 is ready or
>> possible for Forrest. Would someone else comment.
> Cocoon-3 seems ready from what I can tell, though it is already
> suffering from the same things that drove me away from enjoying
> regular Cocoon.  It's overly complex.  There was a time when the
> return on the steep Cocoon learning curve was worth it but that time,
> for me, has passed.  I now have minimum amount of spare time to hack
> at Forrest and when I've tried lately, it's no longer a pleasure
> primarily because I spend much of that time re-learning Cocoon
> complexity instead of being productive.  I must admit that when I was
> at the height of my Cocoon knowledge I was unempathetic to Ross'
> pleas, but now, I probably couldn't agree with his sentiments more.
> Anyway, I think this is a long way of saying that i honestly don't see
> there being a future in a Cocoon-based Forrest.
>> D) Develop some other core.
>> See past discussion in our dev mail archives.
> I think it's ultimately going to be this or the Attic.  Implementing
> something that's intuitive, prefers convention, and doesn't attempt to
> solve all problems could very well bring the fun back.  I think we'd
> have a much easier time attracting new devs too since we wouldn't have
> the problem of "yeah, forrest is easy to understand.... *after* you
> understand this other ridiculously complex beast over there".
>> E) Cease Forrest and move to the Apache Attic.
> I think there is a niche out there for Forrest.  I've got a need now,
> for example, for a simple documentation site but, unfortunately,
> forrest is too much of a burden to use for it - documentation is a
> side-show that people don't want to have to spend hours/days "coming
> up to speed".  So I sincerely hope this option isn't where we end up.
>> ---oOo---
>> Whatever happens, we still need to make a release.
> Agreed, I've been poking around at JIRA lately seeing what I can
> tackle - as i mentioned the Cocoon (re)-learning curve has kept me
> pretty unproductive though.
>> Whatever happens, more people need to assist with
>> the project management tasks.
> Agreed, since I haven't contributed much lately to the coding, I
> haven't been compelled to contribute at all.  That's not good, I know.
>> ---oOo---
>> My opinion is that Forrest needs to make a decision
>> about which direction, and stick with it, developers
>> get involved to start Forrest moving again, and build
>> the community.
>> Options A to D have previous discussion in the
>> dev mail archives.
> Again, I think D or E are the only viable long-term options.
> --tim

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