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From "Ross Gardler" <rgard...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Proposal] decide the future of forrestdoc
Date Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:24:53 GMT
On 14/07/07, Thorsten Scherler <thorsten@apache.org> wrote:
> Disclaimer: I did/do not want to offend anyone in any word I wrote in
> this mail. The persons are exchangeable in any moment, the pattern
> however is the same.
>
> It is not about criticizing people but a pattern!
>
> On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 10:47 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
> ...
> > > I am away for a long long weekend from this afternoon.
> > > We don't want to hold up Vincent, so if someone feels
> > > that positive consensus is reached, then please start
> > > that process to link up with last month's thread from
> > > him and the Maven people. Otherwise please start a
> > > Forrest vote for clarification.
> >
> > As far as I am concerned the general feel is positive at present.
> > However, we need to leave a little more time to ensure Thorsten is
> > able to object more strongly if he so desires. An alternative is that
> > we give Vincent commit access here, however, that would require a
> > vote.
> >
>
> Hold on, let us step back for a moment.
>
> I see it as follow (leaving out that Vincent is an ASF committer and
> expressing he is acting for an ASF community (maven), I will attend this
> part later):
>
> Somebody expresses interest in whiteboard code. Two committer say that
> they are willing to have a closer look on code (never reviewed in their
> life) that has gone a long road to find forrest as current host.
> Silence. Patches. Proposal to give it away to the one expressing
> interest (submitting patches) because the patches have not been applied
> within 48 hours, because the forrest community is to small.
>

People expressed interest some time ago but did nothing. Thorsten (one
who expressed interest) now states they do not have the time. Someone
else provides patches and *is* active, but they don't have commit
access to the code.

Forrest is not maintaining the code, Maven want to.

> How does this read?

It reads like Lazy Consensus to me.

> The question arise is, can we win a community member by going the extra
> mile to get a grip on historical whiteboard code as community or do we
> want to go give up trying to win communities member, giving code away?

This code is *not* part of Forrest. We have no intention of embedding
it in Forrest, at least no action on doing so. It is not in our
roadmap. It was only ever moved here because it would have got lost
otherwise.

Bringing in a community member whose only interest is in a peice of
code that we do not have a use for is not going to help our community.
On the other hand, allowing another community to actively develop the
code means that, should we want to use it in the future, it will be
more stable.

Finally, we are not "giving code away". This is the ASF there is no
ownership of code. What we are trying to do is put the code in a home
where it can flourish.

> Adding the part "Vincent being an ASF committer expressing he is acting
> for an ASF community (maven)" is changing a WEE bit the situation.
>
> Can't we leverage? For now the scale for people that are sharing
> interest it is about 2 forrest : 1 maven (and code still in forrest). It
> is IMO ATM our duty to maintain the code.

It is our duty to maintain the code, I agree. But the "our" in that
sentence refers to the ASF, not to Forrest. We (Forrest) are not
maintaining the code, Maven say they want to use and maintain it and,
more importantly, Vincent is doing it.

> As soon as we see a wave of patches coming from the maven community we
> may re think the situation, but for now I do not see the need.

OK, so will you please apply the patches so that Vincent can proceed
unhindered. (that doesn't mean I won't do so, only that right now I do
not have the time)

> > Vincent, are you reading this thread? If so can you liaise with the
> > Maven community to see if they would like to accept the code into
> > their SVN. Be aware that Forrest have not yet decided they will donate
> > the code (see above), but if Maven don't want it you could save us
> > some time.
>
> My question is how many people are interested in maintain/develop the
> code in the maven community?

I don't know the answer, but I do know it is one more *active*
committer than in the Forrest community.

Ross

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