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From David Crossley <>
Subject Re: Wiki
Date Fri, 10 Nov 2006 01:09:13 GMT
Gav.... wrote:
> > From: David Crossley
> > C. Grobmeier wrote:
> > > Gavin wrote:
> > > >Here is one such thread :-
> > > >
> > > >Can't seem to find the one where I was involved at the moment,
> > > >Will have another look later.
> > 
> > Thanks. That links to some of the past discussion too.
> > 
> > We need to review those threads, some great ideas evolved.
> > 
> > > Thank you very much. I read it and understand, that you don't want a
> > > wiki cause it's to early for this project. You fear that docs are in the
> > > wiki but not in the core docs, that the PMC can't oversight the entries
> > > and so on.
> > >
> > > I see a wiki more as a sandbox. It contents small artifacts of users who
> > > don't want to get involved in the mailinglist or of users who don't want
> > > to start creating a patch. Sometimes a wiki makes things easier. It
> > > works for Commons and i think for Struts too.
> > >
> > > But i -really- don't want to bring this old discussion back to life
> > > cause i am new to this project and hope to see your reasons more clearly
> > > when i am deeper into it. I just was curious cause many projects use a
> > > wiki but Forrest don't.
> > 
> > Well one reason is our history and purpose. We are
> > our own documentation system. Open your text editor,
> > tweak our doc sources in site-author/ and review
> > them with 'forrest run'. However we have received
> > very few documentation patches.
> > 
> > The above linked to an important proposal discussion
> > which has not yet been implemented. Either use Lenya
> > or piggyback on Cocoon's Daisy.
> >  [PROPOSAL] A CMS for our Docs
> >
> > 
> > I glanced through that again. If someone could help to
> > summarise it and make a new proposal, that would be
> > fantastic.
> >
> > The Forrest project seems to be gaining some new energy
> > these days, so perhaps we can move forward.
> It was a very long group of threads that started off as a proposal
> For Daisy to become the CMS of choice, it turned into how can we
> Make Lenya + Forrest work together, Lenya as the CMS of course, then
> Forrest would publish Lenya published (committer approved) docs.
> Hows that for a summary ? (er, only joking :) )
> We have DOCO (DOCU ?) although I forget how far this has got and even
> If this was its purpose.
> A summary would be good and I'll try and do one shortly, but as for making
> it a new proposal, I am unsure as to what to propose, does it need yet
> Another discussion considering advances in Lenya, Forrest etc have changed
> How we might go about such an integration. The thread obviously chooses
> Lenya for the CMS part, are we happy with that or do we need to go through
> Some more choices again? Are Lenya in a position to be able to help again
> Where necessary?

I waited for a while to see if some other people would comment.
None, so i guess that means that people feel the same way as
me about this topic: not enough energy for integration exercises.
It sounds to me like there are not enough active developers here
to enable it.

Gav, don't take it on lightly, there are many issues.

Look at the archives to see how other people have done
past proposals (they usually have [Proposal] in the Subject).
Generally one person has a burning desire and puts in a lot
of effort to explore the topic and figure out exactly what
needs to be done. A well thought-out proposal enables concise
followup discussion.

If you want to pursue this, then perhaps just investigate
a small part of it, e.g. one suggestion was to ask Cocoon
if we could have a small section of their Daisy to use
as a doc scratchpad, but leaving our main documentation
as it is now.

Even with just that, there are still many issues to be
investigated, e.g. restricted edit access, backup of sources,
how to maintain oversight of diffs, define the exact purpose, etc.

I don't want to squash your enthusiasm, but we don't want
you spending effort if the rest of the project is not behind it.
So it is a good idea of yours, to explore the high-level first.

Personally i would rather work with the doc system we have now
and concentrate on the 0.8 release.


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