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From Addi <a...@rocktreesky.com>
Subject Re: [RT] A new Forrest implementation?
Date Wed, 16 Aug 2006 01:48:08 GMT
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Hi folks, I haven't been active on the list for quite a while now but
do still skim.  I don't use Forrest anymore but still like the concept
of it.  <br>
<br>
Not to bore you but just for some context - My main interest in Forrest
was that it did format transformations using XML stuff I could (mostly)
understand.  I am not a lifelong programmer - I'm new to the IT world
in general about 4 years ago.  I knew how to use email before then -
that was about as technical as I got.  Today I am mainly an XHTML, CSS
developer with enough PHP to hack other people's code and get what I
need.  I mainly work with PHP-based CMS now but I would still love to
have the transformation work that Forrest does.<br>
<br>
I can't comment on the framework suggestion from a technical point of
view - Cocoon is just beyond me to even pretend to evaluate.  But
anything that smacks of a "simpler" Forrest catches my attention.  I
really did try to dig in deeper when I first came to Forrest but with
my limited programming background it was just too much to hack
through.  Will changing the framework make it any easier for me?  I
don't know, but I know that trying to learn the external components
that currently go into Forrest didn't work for me.<br>
<br>
I'll go back to the recesses of lurking again now.<br>
<br>
- Addi<br>
<br>
<br>
Ross Gardler wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid44E23A92.3080103@apache.org" type="cite">Maurice
Gittens wrote:
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">Here's an opinion of a dev that has been
lurking on this list for some time.
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
Excellent, it's really important that we hear views from everyone with
an interest. If we do something radical we have to be sure it is the
right thing to do.
  <br>
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">I much appreciate the conceptual design of
forrest where a single internal format is used as the target of input
transformations and as the source of output transformations.
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
Yes, I agree. This is something that must not change. In fact, if we
make such a radical change on the underlying code then I'm sure we will
also take the opportunity to move to XHTML2, something we've wanted to
do for a long time.
  <br>
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">However I agree with Ross that there is much
unneeded complexity involved in using Forrest relative to the
functionality it provides. I currently choose not to debug problems I
encounter
    <br>
in Forrest simply because this entails delving into too many seemingly
    <br>
overengineered components with not much relevance to the problem
    <br>
I am trying to solve.
    <br>
  </blockquote>
  <br>
This is precisely what I thought was happening, although we can't
assume you are typical, it would be great to hear from others.
  <br>
  <br>
However, it is true that I have also grown tired of fighting to debug
stuff in Forrest. One of the other advantages of moving to a more
simple Java implementation is that we will gain the ability to write
unit tests for each component and test it in isolation of the rest of
the system.
  <br>
  <br>
  <blockquote type="cite">Luckily for me, the forrest devs usually
quickly fix the problems so that I don't even have to report them. The
fact remains however that I would have enjoyed giving something back.
    <br>
    <br>
This is all to say that I would be happy to contribute to a cleaner
implementation of Forrest.  </blockquote>
  <br>
It's good to hear that you think such a move might help you become more
involved in Forrest. If your case is typical then I'm certain that this
would be a good move, but we need to hear from more people like you to
help us decide what to do.
  <br>
  <br>
Ross
  <br>
  <br>
  <br>
  <br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<font color="#3d2515"><em>Addi Berry</em><br>
240-274-0875<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:addi@rocktreesky.com">addi@rocktreesky.com</a><br>
</font><a href="http://www.rocktreesky.com">www.rocktreesky.com</a>
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