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Subject: Re: status of skins and dispatcher for 0.8 release
From: Thorsten Scherler <thorsten@apache.org>
To: dev@forrest.apache.org
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	 <44578DC1.705@apache.org>
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Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 21:03:02 +0200
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El mar, 02-05-2006 a las 17:50 +0100, Ross Gardler escribi=C3=B3:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > We need to have a very clear statement about the
> > status of "Skins" and "Dispatcher" for the upcoming
> > 0.8 release. This statement needs to reflect the vision
> > of developers and where the PMC wants the project to
> > be going.
> >=20
> > At the same time we need to be careful to not get
> > people over-excited about new technologies that are
> > not quite ready. Remember the mess that we got into
> > at Apache Incubator.
> >=20
> > Users and developers need to know that Skins are
> > still usable and still the main mechanism.
> >=20
> > There is then the Dispatcher work-in-progress that
> > has reached an excellent stage. We certainly want to
> > encourage people to investigate it and help to
> > develop it.
> >=20
> > It is my understanding that we have not yet made a
> > decision about when Dispatcher will be ready, nor
> > whether it will replace skins or whether both will
> > be usable as plugins. I, for one, am happy to further
> > delay that decision, but we need to come up with
> > some words to define the situation.
> >=20
> > What do others think?
>=20
> It is my understanding that the intention is to eventually have=20
> dispatcher in core and that the current skins functionality will move to=20
> an internal plugin.=20

No, not sure about the moving to core part. I do not think it is a good
idea to add the dispatcher "directly" to the "core".=20

Lately I reread lots of Nicolas Ken threads about html as internal
format, then I looked at the plain skin and our WD. I agree the core
should provide xhmtl2 and xhtml support from the core, but I think that
should be *un-skinned* or *un-dispatched*. Basically *only* the plain
skin applied, but even without any navigation information (such as menu,
tabs, etc.). I will write a plain theme to explain. ;)

The dispatcher will become as well a core plugin (but stay within a
plugin) and as well the themes.core. The skins should (not sure if
somebody will do it) as well become a plugin.


> This means that new sites will be seeded with the=20
> dispatcher as default, old sites will need to add the skins plugin to=20
> their forrest.properties.

yes

>=20
> It is my understanding that this is scheduled to happen in the 0.9=20
> release, by which time the dispatcher should be stable.

yes

>=20
> So, my questions are:
>=20
> 1) is my understanding correct?
> 2) is the dispatcher stable in its implementation?=20

Seems stable from the community feedback, or? ;)

> That is, can people=20
> adopt it without fear of their sites breaking or the dispatcher moving=20
> so far from its current implementation that sites will need to be=20
> reconfigured?

Well I am tended to play the oracle from delphi, but seriously I think
we should adopt user feedback as well in the future like now. If that
means we need to change some things than we need to do it (like we
always did).=20

...but I personally consider the current structurer/contract grammar
(the only thing that would need reconfiguring) as stable. Like said
above when we get lots of feedback to change some things then we need to
decide on a case-per-case basis but generally we are always open for
enhancements.=20

> If dispatcher cannot be called stable yet then I do not think we should=20
> be encouraging users to adopt it. If it is considered stable then I=20
> think a statement to the effect of "cutting edge users and developers=20
> are encouraged to *test* the dispatcher which is intended to replace=20
> skins in 0.9"

I think we should move the dispatcher out of the whiteboard now. There
are only some minor enhancements that keeps it still in there. I reckon
when we are switching to dispatcher after the 0.8 release (in 0.9-dev)
then the least thing is to add the dispatcher to the official plugins
before the 0.8 release. It is just a svn mv and some other things, or?

> > I made a start today with a new document called:
> > "Status of Themes: Skins and Dispatcher" ...
> > http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs?rev=3D398810&view=3Drev
>=20
> It's down at the moment - will look later.
>=20

Sounds good.

Thanks David.

salu2
--=20
thorsten

"Together we stand, divided we fall!"=20
Hey you (Pink Floyd)