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From Cyriaque Dupoirieux <Cyriaque.Dupoiri...@pcotech.fr>
Subject Re: status of skins and dispatcher for 0.8 release
Date Thu, 04 May 2006 07:24:54 GMT
le 04/05/2006 06:36 David Crossley a écrit :
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>   
>> Ross Gardler escribi??:
>>     
>>> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Ross Gardler escribi??:
>>>>         
>>>>> David Crossley wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> We need to have a very clear statement about the
>>>>>> status of "Skins" and "Dispatcher" for the upcoming
>>>>>> 0.8 release. This statement needs to reflect the vision
>>>>>> of developers and where the PMC wants the project to
>>>>>> be going.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the same time we need to be careful to not get
>>>>>> people over-excited about new technologies that are
>>>>>> not quite ready. Remember the mess that we got into
>>>>>> at Apache Incubator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Users and developers need to know that Skins are
>>>>>> still usable and still the main mechanism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is then the Dispatcher work-in-progress that
>>>>>> has reached an excellent stage. We certainly want to
>>>>>> encourage people to investigate it and help to
>>>>>> develop it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is my understanding that we have not yet made a
>>>>>> decision about when Dispatcher will be ready, nor
>>>>>> whether it will replace skins or whether both will
>>>>>> be usable as plugins. I, for one, am happy to further
>>>>>> delay that decision, but we need to come up with
>>>>>> some words to define the situation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>             
>>>>> It is my understanding that the intention is to eventually have
>>>>> dispatcher in core and that the current skins functionality will move
to
>>>>> an internal plugin.
>>>>>           
>>>> No, not sure about the moving to core part. I do not think it is a good
>>>> idea to add the dispatcher "directly" to the "core".
>>>>
>>>> Lately I reread lots of Nicolas Ken threads about html as internal
>>>> format, then I looked at the plain skin and our WD. I agree the core
>>>> should provide xhmtl2 and xhtml support from the core, but I think that
>>>> should be *un-skinned* or *un-dispatched*. Basically *only* the plain
>>>> skin applied, but even without any navigation information (such as menu,
>>>> tabs, etc.). I will write a plain theme to explain. ;)
>>>>
>>>> The dispatcher will become as well a core plugin (but stay within a
>>>> plugin) and as well the themes.core. The skins should (not sure if
>>>> somebody will do it) as well become a plugin.
>>>>         
>>> If I understand you correctly I think this is a great idea. Let me
>>> explain why...
>>>       
>
> Good, i agree.
>   
Yes it's excellent,
>   
>>> I currently use the Cocoon Portal to generate the final skinned/themed
>>> content for many of my sites. I am also doing a new project now that
>>> uses Tiles (within Struts). In these instances I request the body-*.html
>>> page from Forrest and include it in the relevant rendering platform.
>>>
>>> If we do as you suggest, and have core only outputting XHTML2, the user
>>> is free to use whatever skinning/theming engine they need. This makes
>>> Forrest much more flexible in terms of embedding it in new applications
>>> and would help us get away from the view that "Forrest is a web site
>>> generation tool".
>>>
>>> We can still provide a number of seed and samples illustrating different
>>> approaches to content skinning.
>>>
>>> Am I following you correctly?
>>>       
>> yes. :)
>>     
>
> Good, i agree.
>   
Perfect,
>   
>> That is the basic idea as I understood Nicola after x re-reads. ;) Just
>> output plain something (xhtml or xhtml2) and then let the theming engine
>> take over.
>>
>> ...and yes, we only provide different seeds to the different
>> approaches.
>>
>> ...in the end, who set the dispatcher is "better" then skins. ;) Skins
>> are still way faster and doing certain partial jobs very well, so not
>> need to migrate to the dispatcher right away. In the end the only thing
>> that we need in forrest as interface is *one* common interface (let it
>> be xdocs for now and xhtml2 in the future).
>>     
>
> Good, i agree. I would like to see skins remain.
> They can satisfy certain limited uses and i reckon
> that they can be enhanced.
>
>   
Ok,
>> If somebody starts an skin plugin I reckon I am the first one to help
>> but we need a common output that is way easier as the question
>> dispatcher or skin in any way. ;) We need to remove all skin specific
>> stuff from core and _should_ move it to a plugin. The holes should be
>> filled with some very simple and basic *-to-xhtml(2) transformations.
>> KISS ;)
>>     
>
>   
Perfect,
> Lets do this ASAP after the 0.8 release. Existing
> skins to core plugins; xhtml2 as the internal format;
> enhance the input.XDoc plugin; and create the input.html
> plugin...
[SNIP]

I think the future forrest architecture starts to be clear in our mind 
:-)   !

Salutations,
Cyriaque,
>>
>> Thanks David.
>>
>> salu2
>> --
>> thorsten
>> "Together we stand, divided we fall!"
>> Hey you (Pink Floyd)
>>     
>
>
>   

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