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From David Crossley <>
Subject planning the 0.8 release (Was: [RT] structurer location and resource types)
Date Sat, 25 Mar 2006 00:28:26 GMT
I am pulling the bits out of this RT that concern the
release. Please add more from the other replies.

This thread can identify what needs to be done.
Out of it we can develop a release plan which
defines a realistic target date. Voting on that
plan is necessary and has the advantage of drawing
attention to getting ready for the release.

Gav.... wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >David Crossley escribi??:
> >>Please don't take my comments below the wrong way.
> >>I seek the best for the project.
> >>
> >>I know that this is a Random Thought thread but
> >>there seem to be some design and direction things
> >>which should break out into separate discussions.

People, please do this for other topics from that RT.
I am going away from the weekend so cannot do more.
We need to be able to focus ourselves and refer to
certain discussion. Otherwise we go in circles.

> >>Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> >>> Ross Gardler escribi??:
> >>>
> >>> Regarding backward compatible in general for views/dispatcher/... we
> >>> said that we do not care about it.
> >>
> >>Did we decide on a plan for removing those old
> >>plugins and docs before releasing 0.8?
> >
> >No, we have a couple of issues though:
> >
> >
> >It is nearly finished, but help is *very* welcome.
> If you give me an example of what needs changing I will have a go over the 
> weekend.
> >>At some stage soon we do need to worry about
> >>backwards compatibility.
> >>
> >>
> >>I would like us to get moving on solving the
> >>general issues for the release, not just the
> >>dispatcher ones. We are dragging on too long.
> >
> >What are the general issues? Why do you think *we* are only focusing on
> >dispatcher ones?
> Dispatcher is moving along quickly, and so I guess is receiving a lot of 
> focus
> at the moment, which is good. I do think though that other issues are 
> taking a
> back seat at the moment. I for one have been focusing my attentions on 
> getting
> dispatcher working on my system, trying to find things I could contribute 
> to it,
> this has the impact of me not looking at Jira for other issues that need 
> attention.

Well said Gav. This is what i meant by my comments.

None of us are even bothering to categorise the issues
in Jira, so that we know what needs to be done for the
release. Every ForrestFriday we say that we will do it
but we don't.

Attention is being drawn away from the release.
It is a natural thing for the exciting new development
to cause that. We need to balance that urge with
needing to get the release out the door.

> >>Anyway, this is an RT thread, so that is a topic
> >>for another thread.
> >>
> >>> More, I have reached the point in development (right now) where I see
> >>> the dispatcher way too forrest specific and I want to remove all what 
> >>> is
> >>> "forrest only". There should be no code in the dispatcher that forces
> >>> the user to actually use forrest (forrest is one out of many excellent
> >>> frameworks), the dispatcher is an independent component/framework (well
> >>> heavily incooperating the lm) and should be seen as it.
> >>
> >>I know that this is an RT, but would it be better
> >>to get something that people can use and then we can
> >>refactor later.
> >
> >The dispatcher can be used and since 2 month we could have released the
> >dispatcher from the whiteboard (but I reckon if I am not starting this,
> >the dispatcher will remain forever in the whiteboard - no offense).

I was meaning to get the current implementation
tidied up, so that when we release we don't
create a maintenance and user support problem.
See discussion below.

> Should the release of the Dispatcher from the Whiteboard come before, after
> or at the same time as an official release of 0.8 ? Does releasing features 
> from
> Whiteboard have an effect of a minor build release in its own right, whether
> it be dispatcher, or a plugin or some other Whiteboard event ?

Sorry no time to answer that today.

> >>We have halted development on skins.
> >>Now it looks like endless delays on the dispatcher.
> >
> >It is not because of the dispatcher, the dispatcher is not delaying
> >anything! Forrest core is delaying the release not the dispatcher.
> >
> >BTW we did not even start talking about releasing 0.8.

Ah, yes we have, many times. Often talked about finishing
locationmap and getting 0.8 out. Tidy up the plugins
and sitemaps and categorise issues for release.
It has also been one focus of every FirstFriday.

Yes i know that Dispatcher is not holding up the
release - we have specified that in past discussions.
My comment was meant to say: lets take a breath, pause,
tidy up, and get the release out ASAP.

> So lets talk about it, I guess we need to filter Jira for what IS holding up
> a 0.8 release and go through them. Perhaps the next Forrest Friday should
> focus on this.

Yes. Again. I put a helluva lot of effort in
to implement our discussion about adding a
new category to jira so that we can classify
issues properly and get a rough idea about what
is needed for the release:

> What are the improvements to Forrest other than dispatcher
> that warrant there being a 0.8 release ?

Lets make a dotpoint list here in email.
We will need that for the release notes anyway.
Actually what needs to happen is that we revise
status.xml to add missing entries and declare some
as "important" which gives us a generated list
which we can manually tweak to create the text for
the release email.

There is discussion in the archives that we don't
need to have any special new functionality to do
a release. Release early, release often is a must.
And we don't need to conserve our release numbers:
0.8, 0.9, 0.10, 0.11 is fine.

> Are bug fixes and patches from 0.7
> reason enough to release Forrest 0.8 without dispatcher being factored
> into it -- or are most bug fixes and patches from 0.7 in the current 0.7
> downloadable version ?

There only was every one release of 0.7 and
nothing gets added to it (see changes.html).
Crucial bugfixes are in SVN at branches/forrest_07_branch
All bugfixes are in the trunk.

Some committers have also added new functionality,
which is presumably duplicated in the trunk.

We could do a 0.7.1 release from the branch.
However it would be better to release 0.8 which
includes all those fixes and much more.

> Should Dispatcher, although as you suggest, not part of the 0.8 release 
> program
> and not holding up a 0.8 release, be moved from Whiteboard into core/plugin 
> at
> the same time, now, or after ?

Anytime. However it takes someone to research the
side-effects, make a proposal, co-ordinate it.

My current opinion is that it should happen after
the release. Lets explore that topic in a separate

In the recent tidy up of all plugins to get
consistent documentation and use of locationmap
we didn't tidy up any of the whiteboard plugins.
So when one is going to move, it needs such.
Not too hard, but takes effort.

No matter were it is located, we have some work
to do prior to the 0.8 release. It takes all of
us to pitch in to help and revise all of the
documentation (both in the main docs and the
plugin's own internal docs).

It needs to be clean and not confusing because
even though people have been warned that it is
still in-development, they will naturally use it
and come to rely on it.

So even though dispatcher doesn't hold up the
release, it needs to be in pretty good shape,
or we will get endless questions and confusion
on the users mailing list.

> What are the incentives for users to upgrade to 0.8 from 0.7 ?

See the need for release notes above.


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