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From Ross Gardler <rgard...@apache.org>
Subject The future (was Re: New skin: Coat)
Date Mon, 02 Jan 2006 22:55:28 GMT
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El lun, 02-01-2006 a las 06:48 +0000, Ross Gardler escribió:
> 
>>I've been wanting to create a skin for Forrest that looks like that at 
>>http://www.apache.org for some time. Mostly because the default Forrest 
>>skins are, well "old".
>>
>>The recent thread on the incubator list discussing Forrest as a tool has 
>>finally prompted me into action (congrats to anyone deliberately 
>>provoking us to make this happen ;-). I've built the Incubator site 
>>using it.
>>
>>It's not perfect, but a a very good start. Really this should be done in 
>>the dispatcher, especially since most of the work is removing stuff from 
>>pelt and changing the CSS. However, we need this now, at least as a demo 
>>of a good clean skin. Besides, it only took about an hour and a half.
> 
> 
> Actually I am still trying to catch up all the mails around the emerging
> need for this and a couple of other threads, so just a quick remark
> about it.
> 
> Actually we can use the css and do it in a dispatcher theme. We need to
> finish up the dispatcher and release it because it solves a lot of the
> problems that leaded us to this new skin.

I agree.

I'm doing a theme for it right now. I don't want to waste time on the 
skin version, there are some problems my CSS skills won't solve easily 
so I'm starting from scratch with a theme. The purpose of the skin was 
to show that the look and feel can be changed really quickly and there 
is no need to use unreleased features.

However, looking forward rather than backward, it appears that there is 
now hardware available for the site-build tool. Forrest is not ready for 
that, but I would like to put a demo together showing how close we are. 
People do not realise that we have been making steady progress on the 
requirements outlined at [1].

The next big task with respect to the site-build tool is the handling of 
multiple projects with a single command. The new properties system 
solves the easy 80% of that, we just have the hard 20% left ;-) (oh and 
to finish the locationmap integration and the dispatcher)

> I would be happy to create a coat theme and release the dispatcher with
> it but IMO we need to focus on the dispatcher more then to do it in
> skins now. 

You focus on the dispatcher code - that's where your knowledge is most 
valuable.

We also need you to focus on the Lenya integration when you've finished 
the dispatcher - you have enough to do already ;-)

I'll ask if I have problems with the CSS.

(don't worry I'm going to help with the Lenya stuff too)

> I understand what you have done with the creation of this skin and
> really appreciate it, but now we should finish the dispatcher. BTW IMO
> it would have been faster to do it with a structurer + css. ;-)

Yes, it would have been faster, but I wanted to show it could be done 
without using unreleased features. I'm not going to polish the skin 
version. I'm agree with you that we need to keep pushing forward.

I'm also with David that we need to pick our users carefully before the 
1.0, anyone only willing to complain and not willing to ask simple 
questions is not a useful resource for us right now.

The way forward, in the short term, has to be to support users willing 
to be *power* users. We need to provide something above and beyond other 
tools *out of the box*. As devs we know just how powerful Forrest is, 
but it seems our vision is not being seen outside the project.

We need to make it as simple as possible for power users to stay up to 
date (see other threads). Once we have that in place we can start going 
out there looking for those users, I would propose putting together a 
demo of a (single site) site-build project and taking it to site-dev as 
a prototype (we have much to do before we do that though - this is a 
medium term vision).

Ross


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