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From Thorsten Scherler <>
Subject Re: Menu Overhead Problem (and an offer to fix it)
Date Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:00:19 GMT
El mar, 22-11-2005 a las 09:01 +0100, Ferdinand Soethe escribió:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > Actually I am really concerned that we keep on going to add new features
> > to "old fashion" skins instead of trying to solve such problems with
> > existing solutions. We agreed that skins are deprecated (better become
> > pretty soon). 
> To be honest, Thorsten, I'm getting a bit tired of being force-fed V2
> before it is even released.

no one is forcing anybody here!

> As you know, or could know if you looked at the archives, I have been
> very much in favour of 'views' and have never questioned our decision
> to deprecate old skins once views is released.

> In other words: I would have loved to develop this project in V2 but
> since neither V2 nor XHTML2 were even close to release this fall, I
> had to do it with 0.7. Unhappily so because it meant fixing a lot of
> bugs in old pipelines.

> Also: I don't remember a decision that we leave users of 0.7 and
> deprecated skins alone with their issues, while spending many month if
> not years developing V2 to a state where it is releasable.

Hmm, the development of the dispatcher was and is time consuming, I
agree. We are now pretty close to release the first alpha release of the
dispatcher (as soon as I check in the dispatcherTransformer and related

No one said we want to leave our users alone but fixing skin related
stuff is IMO a work for Don Quijote. I invented views because I (and
others too) came to this conclusion a while ago.

Pelt in v2 is the same pelt like we have in old fashion skins. The user
"only" have to take his skinconf.xml and add it to his default
structurer. That means as soon as we "deprecated skins" we do it *not*
"alone with their issues". We say that this issues have to be solved by
the dispatcher (and I can tell you, that half of the problems are
already solved in the dispatcher) and that the user should update to the

> As it is, I'm simply solving pressing problems and offer sharing the
> solution with the community.

The only thing on your solution is that they change core stuff which
should IMO not be changed with skin specific stuff. There is already
enough skin specific code all over forrest core, the last thing we need
now is to add more such code.

> One final point: The reason why I'm 'sitting here' waiting on the
> sidelines until you guys have taken V2 to a stable state is that I
> simply feel overwhelmed by the complexity of this development.

As soon as the dispatcherTransformer is out everything is happening in
*one* pipe. Maybe that will reduce the complexity.

> By fixing problems in 0.7 and sharing the code I'm trying to
> contribute something useful that is within my capabilities.

That is perfectly alright and thank you very much for doing it. The only
thing that I would like to see is that the solutions are not adding skin
specific stuff to the forrest core.


"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)

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