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From David Crossley <cross...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Proposal for Forrest-Cocoon-Lenya commit access
Date Sat, 03 Sep 2005 07:27:56 GMT
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> 
> Thanks to David for the overview. IMO we should modularize this whole 
> discusion in different topics. The lenght of the thread scream for 
> "SoC". :-)
> 
> Thank to Thorsten that kindly shared with the rest of us (that are not 
> participating on lenya-dev) the discussion about this topic in the lenya 
> side.

That is why we need that cross mailing list.

> Since the subject is about the Lenya SVN access to Forrest I will try to 
> keep on the topic:

The topic is actually far more than that.

> Let review a bit the history
> ===================
> 
> Since 1998 we are working in an easy way to make people docs [0] and 
> dreaming about an unified an integrated document system for Open Source 
> projects. Since 2003, this idea is what we called "Doco". [1]
> 
> While all the 3 communities (cocoon, lenya and forrest) liked Doco and 
> everybody told that is going to contribute with the project. The truth 
> is that we are 2 years ahead and there is no Doco! I believe this is 
> mostly, because the following technical problems:
> 
> 1- Nobody had enough knowledge of the all the involved projects.
> 2-When we had contact with the othe community we found we spoke 
> different languages. :-(
> 
> Some of us started to get involved in other communities to see what we 
> can do. In my case this how I started in Lenya!
> 
> Is there a hope for Doco?
> ===================
> IMO, yes:
> 
> 1-The 3 communities are bigger now than 2 years ago.
> 2-We need to surf the increasing wave of Doco interest inside the 
> communities.
> 3-THE BEST: the communities already digested the overall Doco idea and 
> are ready to help each other in order to make Doco a reality!
> 
> Why Lenya need access to our SVN?
> ===========================
> The lastest discusions about Doco showed that we can try to create a 
> "Lenya Publication"[2] in forrest. That means that is going to be 
> renderd by forrest. To make the things easiers, some of use believe we 
> need to give SVN access to Lenya that way all the people can work 
> together in the same repository.

Well that thread talks about it being in Lenya SVN.
But whatever, as long as we can keep some common stuff
in one or other SVN and get on with it. Maintaining
it should be the least of our worries, either by direct
commit or by patch.

> As we can see this has nothing against meritocracy, principles or ideal. 
> What we want to do is something that Nicola already expressed better[3]:
> 
> David, it seems Ross cracked open the coconut and we now have 
> opensource nirvana. Cool beans! :-)
> 
> Why not a new incubator project or a new list?
> ==============================================
> 
> The reality is tha infra folks are very busy. The ASF is very fast growing 
> and now they have to manage more servers and hundreds of committers.
> Unfortunately, that means a request to infra takes long time now. We know 
> history: months waiting.

Not necessarily, a request to establish a new mailing
list should be pretty easy. If that is what both PMCs
want then one of us can ask apmail for it. But it must
Cc both PMCs and ask for the correct thing or yes
there will be delays.

Actually now we seem to be getting to the main issue.
Thanks for the SoC Antonio.

What we actually need is not shared SVN (that is just
a minor convenience). What we need is shared communication.
This common mailing list idea is excellent.

Another thing that can help is that the Subversion
mailer can send mails for a specific part of the
repository to a mailing list. So we could get common
svn commit emails too.

> So, We don't want to lose the wave! We believe we 
> can start sharing our communities resources and if the initial efforts 
> shows we are going in the right way, then we can request to start the 
> Apache Doco project.

Yeah lets leave that until later. Might not even
need any special project. 

-David

> [0] http://cocoon.apache.org/history.html
> [1] http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/Doco
> [2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=111816526000007
> [3] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=forrest-dev&m=111821259006334

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