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From Thorsten Scherler <thors...@apache.org>
Subject Re: A 0.8 release? (was Re: [Proposal] rollback)
Date Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:51:52 GMT
El vie, 30-09-2005 a las 17:08 +0100, Ross Gardler escribió:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > Why do we want to release 0.8, now?
> 
> release early, release often. This was discussed and agreed a month or
> so ago.

+1

e.g. views reached their first stable version as prototype. Everything
that is coming now make them again highly unstable (that is the reason
why created the two new plugins). Now we can release them as first
alternative to skins and state officially that the 0.8 release will be
the last release that we recommend using skins.

> > I thought we said we need to refactor the whole lot but now we want
> > again release partial work? 
> 
> Refactor the whole lot for a 1.0 release, yes, but there is nothing
> wrong with doing it in stages (in fact it is a good idea to do so,
> release early, release often)

Agree

> 
> Besides, the locationmap is, in itself, a very powerful tool that makes
> it possible for Forrest to be used for the apache site-build proposal
> (which is gathering pace again). see
> http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-build/summary.html

totally agree. but being devils advocate and seeing:
http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/forrest/trunk/main/webapp/locationmap.xml?view=markup
makes me ask what do we want to release?

Being even more devils advocate let me ask if we want to release 08 as:
>>0.8   - refactored sitemaps to utilise locationmap
who is going to do this work?

No offense to anyone but if somebody wants to release 0.8 as -
refactored sitemaps to utilise locationmap, then we (or better this
somebody) has to put some more work into it. It cannot be that we expect
from the usual suspects that they now as well put more work into that
part of forrest.


> > We have ongoing discussions about opening
> > new branches, doing the work in plugins, ...
> >
> > We need a final decision backup with a vote.
> 
> Yes, that concerns me too, that is why I changed my mind about
> branch/plugins decision for the XHTML2 work. You are *doing* it in a
> plugin. My concern was only that it was you that suggested a branch on
> IRC. To be honest I don't care, as long as it gets done and since you
> are *doing* it I don't want to stand in your way - no need for 
> discussion or vote unless someone sees harm.

Understood and thx. The rollback was necessary to let user and devs use
views again. 

> The only harm I see is a very long development schedule to the next
> release which will hold up the release of the locationmap, which in turn 
> will  hold up the release/development of some important (to me only?) 
> plugins (e.g. Daisy, Lenya, Amazon ECS) and attraction of users/devs to 
> Forrest (through Apache site-build)

Totally agree but we really have not put too much work in refactoring
the *whole* sitemaps to lm. 

> > -1 to release anything right now!
> 
> It's not right now it's once the sitemaps are refactored (which I will
> do in the coming weeks). 

Actually that is the point, why you only? Refactoring the sitemaps can
be done by *all* committers. There is no secrets to it.

> This is a *much* smaller job than the
> XHTML2/views integration. Making core a plugin framework (0.9) paves the
> way for integration of the views plugins (0.10) by cleaning up core even
> more.

Actually I will be able to in-cooperate views as soon the jxpath-1.2
problem is solved. Thanks to Antonio, David et. al. that spend a lot of
time solving the problem  I think latest in 0.9 views are in the core
and will make skins obsolete (can be earlier if we solve the
linkrewritter/jxpath bug). I am right now as well looking into blocks
and trying to make views a cocoon block. 

> Does a 0.8 release prevent you from continuing work on the views stuff?
> Is there really a need for a -1?

A release can be done when I see the lm stuff. *Or* we refocus the
release. Like you stated they are other components that actually are
justifying a release and we do not have to refactor all pipes for it.

> ---
> 
> I did miss something out in the schedule though:
> 
> >>0.8   - refactored sitemaps to utilise locationmap
> >>0.9   - core as a plugin framework (all input/output code to plugins)
> >>0.10  - views integration (which incorporate the move to XHTML2 subset)
> 
> 0.11 - forrest as a Cocoon block (includes new config system)

That would be nice. 

salu2
-- 
thorsten

"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)


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