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From Tim Williams <>
Subject Re: Improving our welcome docs pitiful(wasRe: Simple committership)
Date Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:40:01 GMT
On 8/8/05, Ross Gardler <> wrote:
> Tim Williams wrote:
> > On 8/6/05, Thorsten Scherler <> wrote:
> >>The important point is that new committer are generally
> >>overwhelmed by the information and infrastructure of the project and the
> >>ASF. Some learn better step by step understanding what is ASF all about
> >>and what a PMC member have to do (I consider myself as such a
> >>somebody).
> >
> >
> > I personally wasn't overwhelmed.  The docs are fairly good except for
> > the pitiful email situation.
> Tim, can you explain what you mean by "pitiful email situation". I see
> an opportunity to improve the learning process.

Ok, pitiful may have been a bit too strong;) 

Here are the issues I faced while setting things up.

1.  The preferred way of sending with address is
apparently header mangling.  My problem is that gmail doesn't yet
support alternate from addresses as far as I can tell.

2.  Setting up client for it with ssh tunneling.  I read some mail
posts about setting up an ssh tunneling using port forwarding but
after an hour or so with PUTTY, I abandoned that solution. (may very
well be a firewall issue that I'm unable to figure out).

3.  PINE.  Pine seems to be the only user-friendly client loaded on
minotaur but I wasn't able to receive email to it, but I could send

My current state of affairs:  If I really want to send from my apache
address, I'll just ssh to minotaur and use PINE.  All
twilliams((at)) mail now forwards to my gmail account,
meaning if I do reply to it, it will be from my gmail account. 
Alternate "from" addresses is on the gmail wishlist so hopefully this
won't be an issue any for long because I do like using gmail for all
mailing list stuff because of its labels and "conversation" views --
don't know how I got along without it honestly.

Numbers 2 and 3 could use some documentation that I'm not smart enough
to write.

All this just seems unclean to me.  I suppose it just seems somewhat
ironic that apache, where everything is accomplished through email,
has such a cludgey approach.  I've never looked at James but it seems
that since we have our own mail system we should be able to come up
with a secure email approach that "just works" without "figuring it
out".  I realize documentation would help ease the burden but I guess
I've got to wonder why (given how mature a technology email is) there
is such a burden that needs easing?

As I write this, it is apparent how dumb it was of me to stumble
through some of this without at least asking a question on the list,
so hopefully I didn't miss something simple and obvious.


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