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From Tim Williams <william...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Improving our welcome docs pitiful(wasRe: Simple committership)
Date Tue, 09 Aug 2005 16:40:01 GMT
On 8/8/05, Ross Gardler <rgardler@apache.org> wrote:
> Tim Williams wrote:
> > On 8/6/05, Thorsten Scherler <thorsten@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> >>The important point is that new committer are generally
> >>overwhelmed by the information and infrastructure of the project and the
> >>ASF. Some learn better step by step understanding what is ASF all about
> >>and what a PMC member have to do (I consider myself as such a
> >>somebody).
> >
> >
> > I personally wasn't overwhelmed.  The docs are fairly good except for
> > the pitiful email situation.
> 
> Tim, can you explain what you mean by "pitiful email situation". I see
> an opportunity to improve the learning process.

Ok, pitiful may have been a bit too strong;) 

Here are the issues I faced while setting things up.

1.  The preferred way of sending with @apache.org address is
apparently header mangling.  My problem is that gmail doesn't yet
support alternate from addresses as far as I can tell.

2.  Setting up client for it with ssh tunneling.  I read some mail
posts about setting up an ssh tunneling using port forwarding but
after an hour or so with PUTTY, I abandoned that solution. (may very
well be a firewall issue that I'm unable to figure out).

3.  PINE.  Pine seems to be the only user-friendly client loaded on
minotaur but I wasn't able to receive email to it, but I could send
successfully.

My current state of affairs:  If I really want to send from my apache
address, I'll just ssh to minotaur and use PINE.  All
twilliams((at))apache.org mail now forwards to my gmail account,
meaning if I do reply to it, it will be from my gmail account. 
Alternate "from" addresses is on the gmail wishlist so hopefully this
won't be an issue any for long because I do like using gmail for all
mailing list stuff because of its labels and "conversation" views --
don't know how I got along without it honestly.

Numbers 2 and 3 could use some documentation that I'm not smart enough
to write.

All this just seems unclean to me.  I suppose it just seems somewhat
ironic that apache, where everything is accomplished through email,
has such a cludgey approach.  I've never looked at James but it seems
that since we have our own mail system we should be able to come up
with a secure email approach that "just works" without "figuring it
out".  I realize documentation would help ease the burden but I guess
I've got to wonder why (given how mature a technology email is) there
is such a burden that needs easing?

As I write this, it is apparent how dumb it was of me to stumble
through some of this without at least asking a question on the list,
so hopefully I didn't miss something simple and obvious.

--tim

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