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From Diwaker Gupta <>
Subject Re: Improving our welcome docs pitiful(wasRe: Simple committership)
Date Wed, 10 Aug 2005 05:42:32 GMT
On Tuesday 09 August 2005 9:40 am, Tim Williams wrote:
> > > I personally wasn't overwhelmed.  The docs are fairly good except for
> > > the pitiful email situation.

I had problems setting up email myself a few weeks back (mostly SMTP related) 
and I had asked on the dev-list as well, and also exchanged a few mails with 
David off line. Comments inline.

> 1.  The preferred way of sending with address is
> apparently header mangling.  My problem is that gmail doesn't yet
> support alternate from addresses as far as I can tell.

This is changing. Here's an excerpt from "News from the infrastructure list" 
sent out on committers@a.o on 2005/07/18:

> Email services
> --------------
> We are being flooded with spam. We've already set up a second mail server
> and we will be setting up two more. We plan to start delivering mail that is
> sent to your e-mail addresses directly from those machines to
> your chosen forwarding address. We also plan to offer secured SMTP on these
> machines so that you can send e-mail using your account. We will
> not be setting up POP nor IMAP.

Like you, my preferred solution would have been to use GMail, if GMail allowed 
alternative from addresses. However, moving forward, I think thats highly 
unlikely. As SPF and DomainKeys gain momentum, its more and more unlikely 
that you will be allowed to send email from an address thats different that 
the one your mail host is actually authenticated to provide email services 

The easy solution right now is to use as your outgoing mail 
server. As the above mail suggests, at some point we will have secured SMTP 
hosted by Apache, so that'll end all problems.

Another easy solution is to just use your ISP's mail server, or setup your own 
(thats what I do right now).

> 2.  Setting up client for it with ssh tunneling.  I read some mail
> posts about setting up an ssh tunneling using port forwarding but
> after an hour or so with PUTTY, I abandoned that solution. (may very
> well be a firewall issue that I'm unable to figure out).
> 3.  PINE.  Pine seems to be the only user-friendly client loaded on
> minotaur but I wasn't able to receive email to it, but I could send
> successfully.

I don't understand why reading mail should be any problem. If you are using 
pine/mutt only for the convinience of being able to send mails from your a.o 
address, hopefully one of the solutions I listed above will work. For 
reading, you are free to choose where you want the mail to go.

> Numbers 2 and 3 could use some documentation that I'm not smart enough
> to write.

I'm happy to write this up if it seems a lot of people are running into this 

> All this just seems unclean to me.  I suppose it just seems somewhat
> ironic that apache, where everything is accomplished through email,
> has such a cludgey approach.  I've never looked at James but it seems
> that since we have our own mail system we should be able to come up
> with a secure email approach that "just works" without "figuring it
> out".  I realize documentation would help ease the burden but I guess
> I've got to wonder why (given how mature a technology email is) there
> is such a burden that needs easing?

Yes. But the infrastructure team is really small, and they have tons to do. 
We're getting there, slow but steady :-)

> As I write this, it is apparent how dumb it was of me to stumble
> through some of this without at least asking a question on the list,
> so hopefully I didn't miss something simple and obvious.

I was surprised too... apparently it seems a lot of people just use their ISP 
server to begin with and therefore don't face that problem :-)


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