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From Cyriaque Dupoirieux <Cyriaque.Dupoiri...@pcotech.fr>
Subject Re: [Proposal] No new features into skins (was Re: [jira] Closed: (FOR-320) )
Date Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:48:38 GMT
Thorsten Scherler a écrit :

>On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 14:25 +0200, Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
>  
>
>>Ross Gardler a écrit :
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 10:01 +0100, Ross Gardler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Tue, 2005-07-12 at 10:08 +0200, Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thorsten, you closed the FOR-320 and do not apply the patch on
skins.
>>>>>>>Does that mean that we will not improve skins anymore ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>I would not see any benefit from applying it to skins. ;-)
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The patch already works for skins and there are many people already 
>>>>>using skins. Views are not ready to replace skins yet (we will need 
>>>>>pelt in views before that can happen). Please reopen the issue.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>I will soon be on this improvment, but I don't understand what is the 
>>impact of the project.skin property now that templates directly generate 
>>XHTML.
>>Thorsten, how do you imagine to be multi-skins vith views ?
>>    
>>
>
>For now we can use a new forrest.properties property for that. 
>
>I added in http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs?rev=215900&view=rev 
>#views
>project.view-defaultView=default.fv
>
>Now you can add to you project specific forrest.properties
>project.view-defaultView=pelt.fv
>  
>
Ok, and where do I put my pelt.fv ?
I tried in :

    * forrest/build/plugins/org.apache.forrest.plugin.internal.view/resources/views,
    * project/src/documentation/conf

it is not taken into account...

It is only taken into account in 
project/src/documentation/content/xdocs, but I would like to have the 
same behaviour of inheritance as for default.fv :

    * Search for $path/myFile.fv
    * If not found, try to take this -
      project/src/documentation/conf/pelt.fv
    * And - at last - if not found, take this -
      forrest/build/plugins/org.apache.forrest.plugin.internal.view/resources/views/pelt.fv

Regards,
Cyriaque,

>...and then follow
>http://forrest.apache.org/docs_0_80/howto/howto-view-dsl.html
>
>to develop pelt based on views.
>
>Then you will end up with 1. css-file and 1. pelt.fv. 
>
>We will then add it to the view and we can choose 2 different skins
>(default and pelt).
>
>  
>
>>(That is how do we manage templates, how do we manage fv files
>>    Maybe use of different directories to store templates ?
>>    Maybe default.skinname.fv files ?
>>)
>>    
>>
>
>If we come to the point where we have views in the core and "view
>plugins" that will be nearly the same. With a small extension that the
>user can then as well define which views.xhtml plugin (s)he wants. 
>
>Like
>project.views.xhtml.plugin=org.apache.forrest.plugin.output.viewHelper.xhtml
>
>Only that we need to move views into the core to activate that.
>
>Anyway if you can provide the css and view for pelt that would be more
>then great.
>
>:)
>
>salu2
>
>  
>
>>Regards,
>>Cyriaque,
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>You are as well admin and can reopen the issue (read on before you do).
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Yes I know. But I don't want to go stamping on what you already did 
>>>without understanding your reasoning, you never know I might agree 
>>>with you when you explain it to me ;-)
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Adding *new features* to skins *do not* help to make views ready to
>>>>replace skins. Did you thought about that? 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I agree that spending the time adding new features is not a good 
>>>thing. However this patch already exists. as I said in my mail I agree 
>>>that it would need to be made configurable, I'm not sure anyone will 
>>>bother with that, I know I won't). Like I said in my original mail, 
>>>all I am suggesting is leaving it open so that if a user wants this 
>>>feature we can point them at the patch, or better still they will find 
>>>it without asking questions on the lists. If the issue is closed they 
>>>are unlikely to find it.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>...and we *do not* need pelt in views, that is not true. Why do you mean
>>>>that?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>If you want people to adopt views I strongly recommend that we have a 
>>>view that looks the same as pelt. Look at the number of sites on our 
>>>example sites that use it. Most of those sites will will not switch to 
>>>views unless at the point of switching their site looks the same as it 
>>>does not. Then some will start playing with views and customising 
>>>their sites look and feel because they will discover how easy it is.
>>>
>>>Those who are not using pelt are, in most cases, using a customised 
>>>version of it. If you provide a view that looks like pelt it will be 
>>>much easier for them to recreate their own site in views. Therefore, 
>>>they are more likely to migrate to views.
>>>
>>>If you do not provide this migration route most existing users will 
>>>stick with the deprecated skin for quite some time. There is no 
>>>motivation to move from it since they are perfectly happy with what 
>>>they have. The fact that it is cool, whizz bang technology and really 
>>>easy to customise is irrelevant if they are happy with what they have.
>>>
>>>If we want to bring our existing user base to views we have to make it 
>>>very easy for them. This means, in my opinion, that we need a view 
>>>that looks exactly like pelt.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Anyway I am -1 to reopen this issue and apply it to skins because that
>>>>means we have to add yet another property to the skinconf,...
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I said reopen, not necessarily apply it, I agree with David that it 
>>>would need to be configurable before we applied it and that involves 
>>>spending time on it, which I agree is not a good thing, our dev time 
>>>should go into views. However, the fact that we are deprecating the 
>>>skin does not mean we should put contributions in a place where they 
>>>will not be seen by existing users.
>>>
>>>Ross
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>

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