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From Thorsten Scherler <>
Subject Re: 2nd generation skinning - view and leather
Date Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:29:28 GMT
On Tue, 2005-04-05 at 21:49 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
> > > Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If somebody have some spare time and want to help us with the "2nd
> > > > generation skinning" you can:
> > > 
> > > I will certainly be helping out, but not until 0.7 is released. Once
> > > that is done this is right at the top of my ToDo list.
> > 
> > Dude, no hurries. 
> > 
> > You know more or less know what I am trying to do. Now I need more
> > devs/user and committer (junior/senior) looking in the stuff and give
> > me/us feedback.
> Yes, calling all people on the dev list, not just the committers.

After 0.7 I will ask as well for feedback on the user list directly. For
now it is only for devs because they are the most likely to use
trunk. ;-)

> > I think it would be a good idea to plan the view/leather as default
> > skinning mechanism for 0.8. That would makes it possible to develop the
> > skinning engine for 0.9 and have a stable version on our 1.0. :)
> Actually, we might need to go 0.8 0.9 0.10 0.11 1.0
> Release often.

I had the same thought a while ago when we were talking about the 0.7
release that we will need 0.1x as well.


> > ...but for that I need some eyes on the code and NOT ONLY yours and
> > mine!!! Actually I wish especially that Nicola would have a look and
> > play devils advocate. ;-)
> > 
> > David had a look on it this morning (I am still waiting for things you
> > do [not] like). ;-) 
> Sure, i will try again soon.



> > Sorry for being pain in the a***, but I need some enhancement suggestion
> > because I am relative happy with the concept but not really with my
> > implementation (it is still proof of concept). ;-)
> As NKB said, just get on with it, we can always change later.
> Is the plugin marked with its status in some way, so that
> people don't rely on it when it goes out with the 0.7 release?

What do you mean with "rely on it". 

The contracts and the interface calling the contracts are quite stable.
Ok, the plugins are 0.1 but I will use them to create my personal
website as soon as I implemented all contracts (and find some time).

I have not done an ant deploy and I will do it earliest after the
release. The user has to locally deploy both plugin before (s)he can use
it (dev character). That they go into 0.7 is a nice way to deliver a
preview for the next new feature for 0.8. :)

> --David

> > Talking about complexity, I was teaching my students the MVC pattern and
> > must admit that I see our nuggets as result of models. This models
> > depend on the document specific meta data (forrest:properties). They
> > deliver our intermediate format. 
> > 
> > Now the view/leather plugins are a mix of controller and view in my eyes
> > that is the reason (I guess) Ross et. al. having problems to understand
> > me because I am mixing things in the code and do not have a clear
> > separation.
> > 
> > ...and that is the reason why I need feedback. ;-)

Ok, I found out that the view I am implementing right now follows the
dispatcher view pattern.

If you change some captions of the diagram
(compare while reading) then you will understand how the forrest:view
concept (should) work(s):

- The *JSP* is now 'forrest:view' in the view.
- The *BusinessHelper* are not yet really implemented but that are
- *ViewHelper* - right now the leather plugin contains this helper in
form of 'forrest:templates'.
- *BusinessService* that are our input plugins
- *PresentationModel* that are output plugins

What I said above about nuggets/models is not right. I said "nuggets as
result of models". ...but it should be "models as result from nuggets".

A nugget is a *BusinessHelper* that access one *BusinessService*. Which
then will provide data for the *PresentationModel*.


"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)

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