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From Thorsten Scherler <thors...@apache.org>
Subject Re: 2nd generation skinning - view and leather
Date Wed, 06 Apr 2005 00:29:28 GMT
On Tue, 2005-04-05 at 21:49 +1000, David Crossley wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
> > > Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If somebody have some spare time and want to help us with the "2nd
> > > > generation skinning" you can:
> > > 
> > > I will certainly be helping out, but not until 0.7 is released. Once
> > > that is done this is right at the top of my ToDo list.
> > 
> > Dude, no hurries. 
> > 
> > You know more or less know what I am trying to do. Now I need more
> > devs/user and committer (junior/senior) looking in the stuff and give
> > me/us feedback.
> 
> Yes, calling all people on the dev list, not just the committers.
> 

After 0.7 I will ask as well for feedback on the user list directly. For
now it is only for devs because they are the most likely to use
trunk. ;-)

> > I think it would be a good idea to plan the view/leather as default
> > skinning mechanism for 0.8. That would makes it possible to develop the
> > skinning engine for 0.9 and have a stable version on our 1.0. :)
> 
> Actually, we might need to go 0.8 0.9 0.10 0.11 1.0
> Release often.
> 

I had the same thought a while ago when we were talking about the 0.7
release that we will need 0.1x as well.

+1

> > ...but for that I need some eyes on the code and NOT ONLY yours and
> > mine!!! Actually I wish especially that Nicola would have a look and
> > play devils advocate. ;-)
> > 
> > David had a look on it this morning (I am still waiting for things you
> > do [not] like). ;-) 
> 
> Sure, i will try again soon.
> 

:) 

Cheers

> > Sorry for being pain in the a***, but I need some enhancement suggestion
> > because I am relative happy with the concept but not really with my
> > implementation (it is still proof of concept). ;-)
> 
> As NKB said, just get on with it, we can always change later.
> Is the plugin marked with its status in some way, so that
> people don't rely on it when it goes out with the 0.7 release?
> 


What do you mean with "rely on it". 

The contracts and the interface calling the contracts are quite stable.
Ok, the plugins are 0.1 but I will use them to create my personal
website as soon as I implemented all contracts (and find some time).

I have not done an ant deploy and I will do it earliest after the
release. The user has to locally deploy both plugin before (s)he can use
it (dev character). That they go into 0.7 is a nice way to deliver a
preview for the next new feature for 0.8. :)

> --David

> > Talking about complexity, I was teaching my students the MVC pattern and
> > must admit that I see our nuggets as result of models. This models
> > depend on the document specific meta data (forrest:properties). They
> > deliver our intermediate format. 
> > 
> > Now the view/leather plugins are a mix of controller and view in my eyes
> > that is the reason (I guess) Ross et. al. having problems to understand
> > me because I am mixing things in the code and do not have a clear
> > separation.
> > 
> > ...and that is the reason why I need feedback. ;-)

Ok, I found out that the view I am implementing right now follows the
dispatcher view pattern.
http://corej2eepatterns.com/Patterns2ndEd/DispatcherView.htm

If you change some captions of the 
http://corej2eepatterns.com/Patterns2ndEd/images/DVMainClass.gif diagram
(compare while reading) then you will understand how the forrest:view
concept (should) work(s):

- The *JSP* is now 'forrest:view' in the view.
- The *BusinessHelper* are not yet really implemented but that are
'forrest:nuggets'.
- *ViewHelper* - right now the leather plugin contains this helper in
form of 'forrest:templates'.
- *BusinessService* that are our input plugins
- *PresentationModel* that are output plugins

What I said above about nuggets/models is not right. I said "nuggets as
result of models". ...but it should be "models as result from nuggets".

A nugget is a *BusinessHelper* that access one *BusinessService*. Which
then will provide data for the *PresentationModel*.

WDYT?
-- 
thorsten

"Together we stand, divided we fall!" 
Hey you (Pink Floyd)


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