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From Sean Wheller <>
Subject Re: A last ditch attempt to encourage an obviously capable developer
Date Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:51:40 GMT
On Saturday 30 October 2004 19:41, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Sean Wheller wrote:
> > At present, without consensus and commitment to move to XHTML now, I no
> > longer see any point of speaking about this pipeline.
> Sean, I'm sorry you feel that way. I had hoped you would try our way
> long enough to understand how it works and why it is the best way.

Believe me I tried the current methods and found them lacking. At first I just 
thought it was me, but as I got into the whole process of converting to the 
current Doc internal format I found problems. Unfortunately, people did not 
have easy answers on how to solve them, so we ended up here.

> As a project we have committed to move to XHTML2. I was hoping that your
> work would help myself and others drive that forward (in fact it has see
> Nicola Kens RT).

Yes I am very happy about this and am willing to take part in this 

> But please, at least read this email before going:
> I just spent 15 minutes putting together a sample plugin to try and show
> you how this works. I assure you I spent only 15 minuted on this - it's
> amazing how powerful Forrest is when you get to know it, if you trust us
> you will grow to love it too.
> This quick plugin loads the page
> in a forrest generated site
> with no data loss (although I have not proof read in detail, only scanned).
> I chose this page because I assume that it was generated from Docbook
> using the Docbook stylesheets.
> I have not done any work on the styling as I don't want to waste my time
> if you are not on board. But if you are on board and can provide
> examples of the problems you encounter I am happy to help you.
> We are are small, but very collaborative bunch. If you find all the devs
> are in agreement you have to assume we are right. If on the other hand
> you are correct with your approach you will find at least one of the
> devs arguing with you (remember I have agreed that the use of docbooks
> fo stylesheets is sensible until we get to XHTML2).
> What I am saying is that we can do what you want to do *now* with
> minimal effort, but you have to work with us until you know Forrest well
> enough to start changing the way we do things.

Yes, I agree that I am making changes "to the way we do things." Yet, this is 
technology. Things must change or you will have no development. Thinking 
"outside the box" is vital to the development of any project.

> If you are at all interested, here's how to get the plugin working:
> - cd forrestcore
> - svn up (I made a couple of small changes to html2document.xsl)
> - download
> - unpack above zip in forrestcore/plugins (this has to be done manually
> as I have not published the plugin)
> - cd forrestcore/plugins/XHTMLDemo/docs
> - forrest run
> - http://localhost:8888

This page is HTML. I checked you change with diff it looks logical and works 
for HTML.

I have placed an XHTML sample at

Update your XHTMLDemo/sitemap.xmap pipeline to
      <map:match pattern="**.xml">
        <map:generate src="" 
        <map:transform src="{forrest:stylesheets}/html2document.xsl"/>
        <map:serialize type="xml-document"/>

You will get a blank body.

Now update to an HTML sample

<map:pipelines internal="true">
      <map:match pattern="**.xml">
src="" type="html"/>
        <map:transform src="{forrest:stylesheets}/html2document.xsl"/>
        <map:serialize type="xml-document"/>

This one works just as expected, a few minors like style/formatting, but hey 
who cares this is closer. Perhaps for now I will just use HTML and add 
changes to fix the problems. But this is just a temp solution. XHTML is the 
way forward and I will continue working in that direction.

BTW, I added the following to forrestcore/plugins/sitemap.xmap

    <map:select type="exists">
<map:when test="{forrest:plugins}/XHTMLDemo/sitemap.xmap">
<map:mount uri-prefix="" src="{forrest:plugins}/XHTMLDemo/sitemap.xmap" 
check-reload="yes" pass-through="true"/>

> So can we start again, or do you still think you have a better
> alternative, if you prefer to work on your own alternatives that is
> fine, I know I have tried my hardest.

OK. I see a way forward.
1.   I fix the HTML solution (a stop gap.)
2.   We work on XHTML and Plugins as per new JIRA.

Really, I must thank you for yor energy and efforts.
Sean Wheller
Technical Author

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