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From thorsten <thors...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [RT] Forrest user impedence
Date Thu, 02 Sep 2004 09:28:49 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:
> On 02 Sep 2004, at 08:41, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> Change the docs - remembering the format -, validate, run Forrest - 
>> and which version? -, copy over the built docs, commit to CVS, log on 
>> the shell and update from CVS...
> 
> 
>  From the peanut gallery: I would focus on a single input format and 
> treat other formats just as binaries. That would be something (X)HTML- 
> or xdocs-like - *not* the cwiki format. Provide people with a clear 
> migration path, but don't carry the burden of backwards-compatibility 
> for too many releases. Don't release too often, but make it x.0 
> releases. Make sure Forrest users don't know that Cocoon is underneath. 
> Throw away the live webapp idea. Slim down Cocoon to its bare essentials.
> 

What you said makes perfect sense, but:

"Throw away the live webapp idea"
IMO that would be the wrong way! I would suggest to extend the webapp 
with "lenya" functionality. The problem that we see with the incubator 
and that Nicola mentioned is that the process to actually deploy a 
forrest-documentation is to long and pain in the a##!

I thought about something like this:

forrest
|
+-forrest seed
|
+-forrestskinbot -> skining, customising
|
+-lenya -> editing, workflow
|
+-forrestbot -> publishing, deployment

Besides the forrest seed everything should be done by a webinterface or 
other GUI (python/java/...). User do not want to write in tags and they 
should not have to!

The +-forrestskinbot is yet just an idea to edit the skinconf.xml with a 
GUI. I would like to do that in a webinterface where I then can hit the 
refresh button and see the changes. That is very important if you change 
layout because it is a try&error process. Besides the layout the basic 
project infos should be customisable as well.

+-lenya should be integrated into forrest or vice versa. That makes it 
possible to edit the content in a WYSWYG editor! Again writing in tags 
can not be our aim! Lenya should take care of creating new, editing and 
archiving existing content. Namly site.xml, tab.xml and all other xdocs. 
With lenya we have as well workflow!

If a ressource should be published and deployed +-forrestbot should take 
over. He should not only deploy the site but
 >> copy over the built docs, commit to CVS, log on
 >> the shell and update from CVS

>> IMHO an ideal setting would not have the users generate the site. This 
>> means having a live Cocoon webapp installed or having the ForrestBot 
>> run. In both cases, SourceForge users would not be able to benefit 
>> from this.
> 

That leads us straight to DOCO! IMO it would be time to get together ASF 
wide and make it happen!

> 
> 
> Look at Gump. Sometimes, it's better to not add to something, but tear 
> things down and provide yourself with the freedom of a blank sheet of 
> paper.
>

Yeah, we are planing that with the upcoming /forrest seed-basic/. A 
blank forrest project ;-).

King regards
thorsten


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