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From David Crossley <>
Subject Re: [RT] Forrest user impedence
Date Fri, 03 Sep 2004 07:53:45 GMT
thorsten wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > 
> >> Change the docs - remembering the format -, validate, run Forrest - 
> >> and which version? -, copy over the built docs, commit to CVS, log on 
> >> the shell and update from CVS...
> > 
> >  From the peanut gallery: I would focus on a single input format and 
> > treat other formats just as binaries. That would be something (X)HTML- 
> > or xdocs-like - *not* the cwiki format. Provide people with a clear 
> > migration path, but don't carry the burden of backwards-compatibility 
> > for too many releases. Don't release too often, but make it x.0 
> > releases. Make sure Forrest users don't know that Cocoon is underneath. 
> > Throw away the live webapp idea. Slim down Cocoon to its bare essentials.
> What you said makes perfect sense, but:
> "Throw away the live webapp idea"
> IMO that would be the wrong way!

Don't Panic. We are not going to throw it away.

It is too cool. Recently i grabbed an email post
of Nicola Ken, saved it as text, stripped the headers
with vi, merged it into a shell xml document, linked it
in site.xml, viewed it via 'forrest run', tweaked it,
and committed it. I had to save his words fast.
It was enjoyable and productive.

> I would suggest to extend the webapp 
> with "lenya" functionality.

Please do. In fact please start a Jira issue for this
so that we can make links to email threads like this.
Too often the words get lost. We just need links, not
copy all the text.

I feel that we are not going to be able to discuss
it properly at this stage, as we need to get our
Forrest release out.

> The problem that we see with the incubator 
> and that Nicola mentioned is that the process to actually deploy a 
> forrest-documentation is to long and pain in the a##!
> I thought about something like this:
> forrest
> |
> +-forrest seed
> |
> +-forrestskinbot -> skining, customising
> |
> +-lenya -> editing, workflow
> |
> +-forrestbot -> publishing, deployment
> Besides the forrest seed everything should be done by a webinterface or 
> other GUI (python/java/...). User do not want to write in tags and they 
> should not have to!
> The +-forrestskinbot is yet just an idea to edit the skinconf.xml with a 
> GUI. I would like to do that in a webinterface where I then can hit the 
> refresh button and see the changes. That is very important if you change 
> layout because it is a try&error process. Besides the layout the basic 
> project infos should be customisable as well.
> +-lenya should be integrated into forrest or vice versa. That makes it 
> possible to edit the content in a WYSWYG editor! Again writing in tags 
> can not be our aim! Lenya should take care of creating new, editing and 
> archiving existing content. Namly site.xml, tab.xml and all other xdocs. 
> With lenya we have as well workflow!
> If a ressource should be published and deployed +-forrestbot should take 
> over. He should not only deploy the site but
>  >> copy over the built docs, commit to CVS, log on
>  >> the shell and update from CVS

This is where things get tricky. Security and procedural
issues come into play. The design discussion on infrastructure
helps in this regard.

> >> IMHO an ideal setting would not have the users generate the site. This 
> >> means having a live Cocoon webapp installed or having the ForrestBot 
> >> run. In both cases, SourceForge users would not be able to benefit 
> >> from this.
> That leads us straight to DOCO! IMO it would be time to get together ASF 
> wide and make it happen!

It is way past time. As i said elsewhere in this thread,
there have been genuine holdups which are now starting to clear.

Anyway, it is great to see that you are keen to integrate
Forrest and Lenya. Keep on.

David Crossley

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