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From "Antonio Gallardo" <>
Subject Re: [DRAFT] request Apache Forrest TLP setup
Date Sun, 30 May 2004 23:12:13 GMT
Scherler, Thorsten dijo:
> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>>>Another thing though is having the archive be publicy available for
>> searching. The fact is that wiki vandalists would have their vandalism
>> recorded in the commit messages and kept public, which makes them want
>> to do it again.
>>>>Because of this I would create a cvs list for the repo commit messages
>> that has a public and searchable archive (eyebrowse), but also make a
>> separate list for the wiki and not have that in eyebrowse.
>>>>This will change when we have DOCO, but IMHO it's necessary ATM.
>>>Okay, we will split them and ask for a wiki@forrest list.
>>>The Wiki itself we will ask for separately when we have decided
>>>about content policy and access policy.
>> The only concerns is:
>> What happend we ggogle for "wiki forrest"?
>> The probability to "hidden" the "wiki site" behind a lot of mail for
>> this
>> mail is there.
>> WDYT?
> I cannot really understand the big deal about wiki vandalism!
> We can always make a rollback of each page. We have the wiki history to
> see who edit what (again for each page). If we see abuse of the wiki we
> can discuss about steps against it but *first* we have to have a wiki ;-).

Hi Thorsten:

As a one of people that care to remove vandalism in the Cocoon wiki. I can
say that is a very boring task. The level of the vandalism start low and
step up with the time. You will see it in Forrest wiki too.

The current proposal to avoid (or low) vandalism is to force people to
sign up to edit a wiki page. Even better, is force to submit a valid
e-mail address. This can be reached by telling them we will send a valid
password to the entered email address.

Why is the deal make a change in a wiki page if just few minuts will be

They really don't care if you undo the change 1 milisec. later. They have
a better threasure. Let's see it:

Our mail archives and wiki history stay forever! The mails include diff of
pages with vandal links that alert us that change was done! Also there are
the wiki history that archive the change for ever. So they got at least 6
links for the site for free:

1-When the vandal put the link  --> generate a mail that go to archive
2-When someone remove the link  --> generate a mail that go to archive
3-The Wiki history of vandal page --> an html page
4-The diff between vandal page and current page --> an html page
5-The diff between vandal page and next page --> an html page
6-The diff between vandal page and the page before --> an html page

Note that some mail list are archieved in more than one place. So there is
a factor (multiplicator?) that they like too. Be aware, there also can be
more pages:

With search engines like google, this pages helps them to pull up the site
as the first result, because they got more "points" for our generated
pages! And this is really a big deal! right?

The best threasure for vandals

What happen when the current page is the vandal page and the google robot
stary to "scan" the wiki site? If the document have a 450 modifications
they will got 900 links for free! That is the best deal ever!

One approach to keep vandals out

Some wikis include in the robot.txt[1] the wiki history and diff to avoid
these links to be scanned by search engines and it help a little to keep
vandals away.


I am aware there can be more pages generated but at least 6 links for free
on the net is good deal, right? ;-)

Best Regards,

Antonio Gallardo

[1] Not sure. I think this is the right name of the file to avoid a robot
to "scan" some links inside the site. Anyway, it is OT here.

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