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Message-ID: <3E7F4775.7040707@apache.org>
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 18:59:17 +0100
From: Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicolaken@apache.org>
Reply-To: nicolaken@apache.org
Organization: Apache Software Foundation
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To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: Usability news website
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Stefano Mazzocchi wrote, On 23/03/2003 15.54:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> 
>> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote
>>> http://www.betaversion.org/~stefano/software/forrest/1.3/page.gif
...
> 1) fonts should be user customizable, just like on devedge (trivial 
> javascript to link from every page that modifies dynamically the CSS 
> depending on user needs)

Done on krysalis skin.

[Disclaimer: I've always done these mods on the krysalis skin only not 
to disrupt uders of the Forrest one. Also, since the Forrest one will 
switch to CSS and I don't want the krysalis one to switch, they will 
remaon separate anyway.]

> 2) the page sections should be added to the left bar, as Nicola 
> suggests, but with a visible way to indicate a difference between a page 
> and a section. I would use a 90% font, a lighter color and a different 
> point icon.
> 
> 3) the location path should remain above everything to give context. I 
> like the suggestion of using the bar below the tabs to indicate 'local 
> navigation hints'.

ATM I was using italics, but have changed per your suggestion on 
krysalis skin. I've also done another tweak by surrounding it with a 
border (it looks a bit like a small page), tell me what you think of it.
I also kept the nesting to one flat level only (much clearer), and 
commented the nesting one out in the site2html.xsl stylesheet.

Check the CVS version and http://www.krysalis.org/centipede/index.html 
to see what is best. BTW, I cannot get CSS to remove the icons for list 
items or to use the right one for the selected item... see if you can 
find out.

> 4) the information about copyright, last published and tools used has 
> been forced to be at the bottom. I would like to move them each in a 
> different location:
> 
>  - copyright at the bottom

ok

>  - buttons at the very bottom of the leftbar (could well be in the white 
> zone after the navigation bar is finished

At first I thought 'it sucks'. Then I said 'not so much'. Now I'm on 
'let's try it'. Did it on the krysalis skin. Not bad after all. It would 
also be nice for 'get java'-like icons for java projects.

>  - publication date in a visible location (at the bottom of the leftbar, 
> but still in the blue zone)

There it's not visible. Put it on the right of the krysalis skin tabbar 
for now, seems ok.

>> These are basically changes that I felt that the Forrest skin should 
>> somehow have, taken from things that users have told me. What do you 
>> think about it? Can we use some of these changes in the base Forrest one?
> 
> Sure. The forrest skin is there for us to experiment with different ways 
> of doing stuff to converge to the most efficient one. Nothing is carved 
> in stone.

I'm doing changes on the krysalis one for now. We will backport all that 
seems sensible enough.

>> BTW Steven's idea is nice.
> 
> Which one?

ME==sucker, it was Konstantin 8-)
Sorry, K-pal!

� Overview                      How to use Forrest �

>>> 2) the tab above do not have the single black pixel below. this is 
>>> visually misleading.
>>
>> Ok.

Fixed in both krysalis and forrest skins.

Also made the selected tab more evidently higher and put the tabs 
nearer, as per your mockup (I liked it better on these aspects).

>>> 3) the leftbar should not open all levels, but only first two and the 
>>> one that ones at the level that is currently visible.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, we know, it needs fixing.
> 
> ok, is the todo list actively maintained here?

not from me 8-)

>>> 4) the use of the triangles indicates a visual semantics of opening 
>>> the tree (as used in macosx, for example).
>>
>>
>> Ok.
> 
> good
> 
>>> Moreover, and even more important:
>>>
>>>  THE TABS SHOULD NEVER OVERLAP IN NAVIGATION!!!
>>>
>>> currently, the forrest web site is very poor in respect to this. tabs 
>>> should be indicating completely orthogonal concerns and thus site areas.
>>
>> This concept got muddied with the new site.xml.
>> On this list there has been a very cool proposal from a user, that has 
>> also posted an example lately.
>>
>> He discussed the points very well, and I have the sensation that there 
>> is good stuff there. Would you like to lead on this and bring it to 
>> practice? It would be cool.
> 
> Sure.


-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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