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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: What's going on here?
Date Tue, 24 Dec 2002 22:16:57 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> 
>> So, when Steven says that he'd like to do thinks right from the start 
>> he's making several mistakes:
>>
>>  1) without user feedback there is no way to know if you did a mistake 
>> or not... the sooner you get feedback, the better you can adjust your aim
> 
> 
> My intonation was perhaps too harsh.

Yes, it sounded so to me (and to Andy as well)

> Of course, we need feedback. But I 
> prefer bugs & feature requests rather than FUD or tendencious 
> chest-thumping (ouch). Hell, I even host a Jira instance for issue 
> tracking: 
> http://issues.cocoondev.org/jira/secure/BrowseProject.jspa?id=10000
> 
>>  2) forcing solutions down people's throwt is not going to help you 
>> creating a community... listening to their problems will. Big time.
> 
> 
> Pardon me, but I'm pretty sure you are misinterpreting the situation. 
> You are looking at the symptoms, not at the cause.
> 
> This project feels like a surgery table, with many spin doctors around 
> it, and some humble technicians being afraid to touch anything since the 
> sky will be falling down. 

This is *always* so for open development projects, Steven. I should know 
this by now. If you think that designing Cocoon2 was a painless staight 
job you definately need to read the mail archives again.

This said...

> The fact that it is being overpublicized is counterproductive.

I totally agree with this.

Forrest is *NOT* even close to be ready for prime time (it can't even 
replace damn stylebook, for &deity;'s sake!) and I would not use it for 
production (there is a reason if Cocoon itself doesn't use it!) but now 
it's too late to blame anybody for having the cat out of the bag and we 
must deal with it.

This means that either:

  1) we piss people off the they move away (Ken and Andy might be the 
first one to do this)

  2) we pay attention to them and try to meet their needs or, at least, 
try to work with them to converge toward a solution that helps both sides.

I'd suggest we go #2, but that's my humble opinion.

> Anyway, I'll stop trying to convince people of my best intentions in all 
> this, and just get some work done. Really.

Good, code is always the best way to shut people up.

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi                               <stefano@apache.org>
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