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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: Conflict resolution (Re: URI spaces: source, processing, result)
Date Fri, 13 Dec 2002 03:50:24 GMT
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>> Jeff Turner wrote:
>>> 2) Want to withdraw your -1 and trust that The World According to 
>>> Jeff is
>>> not a dystopian nightmare of mixed concerns.
>> While Jeff still should prove his world using running code, I do trust 
>> him: he has proven in the past that he is able to live up the 
>> expectations he created himself. This doesn't mean we shouldn't do the 
>> discussion. But we should make it a discussion as Jeff says:
> I want it to be a discussion, and want to come to a solution.
> What I don't want is just to get round issues instead of tackling them.

Agreed, but let's not panic please.

Jeff committed something that he thought was cool, but there was 
disagreement in the community and he immediately rolled it back. Now we 
are looking for a solution thru discussion.

I think this is a very healthy way to settling disagreement and I would 
like forrest to keep the attitude of seeking consensus.

>> If I see 'SoC breakage', I want it to be defined. It is too much of a 
>> vague term. We should all trust our own bellies, but not each belly is 
>> equal. So let's please don't use SoC, IoC and FS without explaining 
>> what problems we will encounter. And I hope we try to be as openminded 
>> as possible, while keeping F. Brooks in mind: there is NO silver 
>> bullet. Not even Cocoon.
> As I have already written, it's about separating the link resolving via 
> a linkmap, form deciding where the source is, from applying the correct 
> generation.
> Let me try to explain it again:
> Concern 1 : links
> -------------------
>  href="linkmap:my/site/home"  -(lookup)->   href=""
>  href="javadocs:MyClass"      -(resolve)->  href="javadocs/MyClass"

I'm not sure I see the difference between 'lookup' and 'resolve'. Can 
you elaborate more on this?

> Concern 2 : source finding
> ---------------------------
>  href="javadocs/MyClass"  -(sitemap)-> src="../../javadocs/MyClass"

I see this.

> Concern 3 : Sitemap selection
> ------------------------------
>  src="../../javadocs/MyClass"  -(CAP)-> execute ReaderPipeline

But again, I'm not sure I see your point here.

>> I hate seeing Ant becoming part of the Forrest equation, because it 
>> will break webapps. At the same time, I have had this REALLY BIG 
>> argument about external resources in the office that much, that I'm 
>> pretty sure we can't fit everything underneath Cocoon.
> Everything must be underneath Cocoon, or we have a hybrid we cannot 
> easily control. 

Nicola, please, try to be less emotional, it's not helping your point to 
come across.

*must* is a pretty tension-creating word, expecially in a discussion 
with divergence.

While I agree with your point of view, I also see Jeff's.

Some of us would sacrifice architectural coherence (and maintenance 
ease) for speed, some of us would do the opposite.

I'm not sure there is a perfect solution for this problem, but it's 
definately worth seeking it in a friendly and open way.

> What can't Cocoon do? CLI has problems with crawling? then let's fix that.

I wrote the Cocoon CLI but I didn't optimize it. I'm sure there is 
*tons* of room for speed improvement at the algorithmic level.

Instead of seeing people ranting blindly on it, I would love to bring 
out the details and see if this community can find better ways to do the 
same things *and* without missing its current functionality.

Stefano Mazzocchi                               <>

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