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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: Forrestbot live!
Date Sun, 08 Dec 2002 09:55:10 GMT
David Crossley wrote:

> I understood that Forrest was to be a companion to Gump,
> leaving each to do its own job. Ken, i am not sure what
> you mean by "pollute our mission" - it is my understanding
> that the automated generation of documentation and its
> remote publishing is exactly the mission of Forrest.
> So i would need more information about the reasons for
> moving forrestbot into Gump. Also we would need to
> re-define the role of Forrest.

'forrestbot' hereby mentioned consists of two things:

  - the forrestbot, basically a set of Ant buildfile-generating XSLT 
scripts, which were done by Marc & me and adapted by Jeff
  - the webapp & shell scripts that can trigger this forrestbot which 
Jeff wrote

I believe Nicola is referring to the latter when suggesting what to move.

Strictly based on scope, one can argue (as Nicola does) that this webapp 
could trigger various other automation machineries, like Gump etc... 
hence my +1 on this _suggestion_:

<nicola>Anyway, we will discuss this when the time is ripe, in the 
meantime I'll try to see that we keep the bot-webapp as neutral as 
reasonably possible.</nicola>

Yes for neutrality, and yes for discussing this when the time is ripe. 
Personally, I don't care whether we move it or not, but in general, I 
think we don't have a big enough project nor community to benefit from 
heavy cross-polination, cfr. my late reluctancy when it somes to this. 
So I gave my +1 to not block Nicola, but at the same time I am worried 
that the code is moved prematurely and gets alienated after this. But I 
saw him promising not to do it too soon, and I believe his word on this.

It is very difficult to express my exact worries about 
over-cross-polination using this medium without _unnecessarily_ stepping 
onto people's toes:

I was hoping to discuss this when I met Nicola tomorrow in Frankfurt, 
but I just canceled my flight since my back condition has aggravated a 
lot this weekend :-(

> What do you people mean by "neutral" ... I thought that the
> scope of Apache Forrest is as broad as is our vision and our
> dreams. Is not Forrest already "neutral"?

Yes, of course. Whether Maven/Gump/whatever gets triggered by a webapp 
named 'forrestbot' or 'foobar' is only a cosmetical difference IMO. I 
hope people are able to make abstraction of the name and look at the 

OTOH, it's only (simple) software code, and one of the most beautiful 
aspects of code is that it can be changed and rewritten. So if 
Gump/Alexandria needs such a thing, I'm pretty sure they have the 
brainpower over there to recreate it.

> Let us sharpen and polish our Forrest tools first.

Right on!

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at    
stevenn at                stevenn at

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