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From Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Including legacy html
Date Thu, 19 Dec 2002 05:25:15 GMT
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 10:15:58PM -0500, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> >I'd say that whoever feels that forrest is talking more time than it 
> >needed it has two choices:
> >
> > - get dirty with it and make it faster
> 
> 
> Don't know how.
> 
> > - use something else
> 
> I do in most cases.
> 
> >
> >The third choice:
> >
> > - complaining about it without doing anything
> 
> The fourth choice:
> 
> - convince others that it is a problem, build a consensus and drive 
> action towards that effect.

I think we need a userexperiences.xml page, describing what working with
Forrest is really like.  I would write a long entry about how it feels
like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer.. simple things are hard, it's
overcomplicated, slow, large (13mb) and at the end of the day, the
advantages of using Forrest on a small site only barely outweigh the
disadvantages.  Unless you've drunk the Cocoon kool-aid, Anakia is going
to be a better choice.

But then we'd also need a future.xml page, describing how Forrest has the
potential to be incredibly cool, and in fact already is on larger sites.
We need to get back to the original Forrest vision where the CLI was
purely a last-step serialization.  Specifically, users should not need to
run the CLI to view the results of edits!  'forrest run' works today, but
isn't good enough, as docs must be edited in build/webapp.  Then we need
to drastically simplify Forrest.  Get the unused crud out of the default
sitemap (Konstantin's latest email looked very relevant), so we can stop
hiding the sitemap, and rather *encourage* users to poke around, and
discover how arbitrarily powerful the Cocoon architecture makes Forrest.
We need to unify the source directory structure.  We need to make
content/presentation separation an obviously _worthwhile_ goal, not a
matter of dogma.  Acme Widget Co should be able to add a <widget> tag in
minutes.  We need user feedback modules, to demonstrate Forrest's unique
scalability: we can go from static to dynamic sites, with the same
architecture.  All this before breakfast :)


--Jeff

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