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From Jeff Turner <>
Subject Re: [OT] Re: Sitemap woes and semantic linking
Date Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:04:56 GMT
On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 12:07:50AM -0800, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >I don't think you understood my point.  There should be no need for fancy
> >HTTPd <-> Cocoon interactions.  There should be strict IoC, with the
> >webserver, not Cocoon, in full control of the URI space, delegating small
> >portions of it to Cocoon. 
> I like the fact that I can write my selectors/matchers in a pluggable way.
> Should I throw that ability away for use mod_rewrite? forget it, dude!
> Should I write a new apache module for every matcher and selector? and 
> then, what about flowscript? and what if my reader is not just a blatant 
> bit-2-bit copier but performs things like image rescaling and maybe has 
> to cooperate with the flow? should I write another module?
> Sure, if we had mod_java, then we could do that, but thinks like 
> flowscript? forget it.
> the HTTPd conf file has not enough semantics to be able to drive cocoon 
> at its full power.

True.  I question whether it would have been better to put all that
effort implementing a Cocoon sitemap, into implementing a HTTPd sitemap.
Rather pointless debating it now, I agree.

> >>NOTE: httpd 2.0 has a pluggable configuration facility. in the future, 
> >>we might be able to use the cocoon sitemap to drive *httpd* directly.
> >
> >
> >Cocoon telling httpd what to do.. isn't that classic subversion of
> >control?
> No, you misunderstood: it's the idea of having HTTPd using a conf file 
> written using the cocoon sitemap markup and using modules as components.

Oh.  Cool :)  Well that's just what I meant; move the sitemap goodness up
one level.  Then we wouldn't be in the ridicuous situation of
contemplating feeding 20mb of static Javadocs through Cocoon.

> But this is *wild* and too many things have to change inside HTTPd to 
> make this possible.
> My idea is different: let's remove the unnecessary Servlet API layer and 
> let's glue cocoon directly to httpd's butt. This is what Pier and I have 
> been thinking about in the last year or so.... since next year I'll 
> probably end up living with him, expect something to happen.

Sounds neat.  If Pier shows any signs of wanting to rewrite HTTPd to use
a Cocoon sitemap, please encourage him. :)


> NOTE: I'm not *mandating* this behavior to Cocoon. Just creating another 
> wrapper: CLI, Servlet API and Apache API.
> Last time that Federico Pierpaolo and I lived together, Avalon, James 
> and Cocoon were born. I'm curious to see what will happen now :)

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