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From Steven Noels <stev...@outerthought.org>
Subject Re: including scripting in output files
Date Mon, 04 Nov 2002 16:48:43 GMT
Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:

>>Nope, an XML course hasn't been included into the Forrest
>>docs - as with Anakia, Stylebook and other site-generation
>>related Apache tools... would this be useful?
> 
> 
> i am reading this as facetious.  the above seems tantamount to
> the statement 'in order to use forrest [effectively], you must
> know xml.'  that's not going to win popularity contests.  i think

Thanks for learning me a new English word :-)

No, it wasn't meant as facetious - if that's what the community wants, 
and it helps us to convince more people about XML, then we'll do that. 
We shouldn't lie to our users however: Forrest is very XML/XSLT-centric, 
and while we are now trying to support 'legacy content', it's not a Good 
Thing to further encourage, especially for content where migrating to 
XML is very much possible. Your form however is a good example of 
content which can very well stay in its original PDF format.

> it most likely that people coming to forrest (or at least trying
> to) will have even less xml experience than i.  they don't *want*
> to know xml; they want to know what they need to put where in order
> to make their site look/behave the way they want.  many will be
> content with <section>, <title>, <p> and the like, at least for
> starters.  they're going to want to use forrest because it makes
> their job *easier*, not because they can use it as an excuse to
> enhance their resumes.

For sure. Only one remark: I really would like to see people move away 
from HTML and start authoring XML, so having pipelines to read static 
HTML should be subject to a vote IMHO. While we do want to support our 
dear users, we don't necessarily have to support all of their bad habits ;-)

> as for php:  take a look at <url:http://www.php.net/usage.php> and
> <url:http://netcraft.com/survey/>.  26% (nine million plus) of web
> sites use php.  do you think making interoperability easy should be
> a goal for forrest?  i do.. but i'm only a user.

There's nothing which keeps you from adding non-XML snippets inside your 
content in an syntactically correct way (using processing instructions 
or CDATA sections, that is).

However: 100% of the web browsers support HTML, and yet at least three 
different site generation frameworks exist @ apache.org to make sure 
people don't have to author using HTML, but can use XML instead. I think 
we should educate our users, but I'm only a Forrest developer :-)

OK - that's me in my MarkUpPolizei-uniform ;-)

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org                      stevenn@apache.org


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