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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <nicola...@apache.org>
Subject Re: XHTML2 I have read it and I like it... GO READ IT!
Date Thu, 15 Aug 2002 14:57:22 GMT

David Crossley wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: 
> 
>>David Crossley wrote:
>>
>>>Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>An interesting article on XHTML2, for those who don't
>>>>want to read the spec :-P
>>>>
>>>>http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2002/08/07/deviant.html
>>>>
>>>>Since there has been quite a good reception on switching the documentDTD 
>>>>over to a profile of XHTML2wd, I think that maybe the best thing could 
>>>>be to make a branch, change there the DTD, check that it all works, and 
>>>>ask a vote for a branch switch.
>>>>
>>>>What do you think?
>>>
>>>I think that you are reading a lot into a short discussion.
>>
>>We have already discussed a *lot* about using XHTML modules in Forrest, 
>>and I understood that it was agreed to try them.
>>Also, we had decided to merge all links into one, make the class 
>>attribute available, and look at the libre effort.
> 
> Ken, if you have the energy to explore it at this stage,
> then please do. 

Ok.

>>>We should wait until there are some DTDs available. We need
>>>the next Working Draft. 
>>
>>Why?
>>We already have our DTD, we just need to change *some* tags to conform 
>>for now, so that the changes we have *already* decided to make are done 
>>in conformance to the draft.
>>Since we *have* to do them soo, IMNSHO it's better to do them according 
>>to the spec, which is surely more near to what it will be like than our 
>>current DTD.
> 
> It looks to me like it is not only simple mapping
> of tag names. Rather there are some structural changes
> that are not yet fully decided nor described via schema/DTD.

I have taken time to show you what the differences are and how we could map.
Please tell me what exactly, this doesn't make the discussion advance.

>>>Also i browsed their recent discussion
>>>archives and this makes me feel that it is too early.
>>
>>Too early to make our DTD *similar*?
>>Too early for what?
> 
> 
> See Masayasu Ishikawa comment on the status:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html/2002Aug/0119.html
> 
> They are still discussing major issues ...
> 
> * XLink and hlink ... you see the following subject
> on current www-html, www-tag, xml-dev lists:
>  XHTML 2.0 and the death of XLink and XPointer?
>  http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/200208/msg00827.html

I read them.
IMHO they are going to keep the <a> tag.
Since we have a link tag, we should just do
   link (fork, ...) -> a

> * href attribute on many different elements.

We don't need to implement that now.

> * Block elements within block elements
> e.g. <p> can now contain <ul> and other block elements

There is no need to implement that now.

> All these things have big impact on our XSLT. And how
> can we be "switching the documentDTD over to a profile
> of XHTML2wd" when they do not yet have a DTD?

Ok, let me repeat it.

">>Too early to make our DTD *similar*?"

Since we have to make some DTD changes, I assume that using same element 
names of XHTML2 where they apply would be better.

No "profile" to be used now of course.

>>>We need to allow time for more discussion on whether this is
>>>the way to go. Some prime Forrest people are away.
>>
>>As I said from the start, there will be no vote till all of the Forrest 
>>developers can have their say, and after a good discussion.
>>
>>And I haven't yet heard from you.
> 
> Maybe you will, maybe not ... no time for everything.

Then you don't have time to veto ;-P

>>>When it does come time for this, is it better to experiment
>>>in Forrest's scratchpad, rather than manage branches?
>>>We already have some scratchpad build targets for doing
>>>transformation and processing of other document types.
>>
>>But this is about converting all the documentation in XHTML,
>>should I copy all of it in scratchapd?
> 
> 
> That is what the scratchpad targets are doing - automated
> conversion to a different document type. They will help you
> to transform some current xdocs to the XHTML2wd.
> 
> If you think that the result of this conversion is best
> explored in a new branch, then go for it. 
> 
> Sure, the best way to explore something is to try to implement
> it. Excellent if Forrest can provide them some feedback on any
> implementation problems before they become concrete. I have
> battles in my geospatial community because they develop
> standards without trying to implement them.

Ok, I now think that a scratchpad example is the best, will go for that.

>>OH well, let's wait for Steven to come back even only to discuss, or the 
>>sky will fall...
> 
> Steady on Ken, no need for sarcasm.

Come on, it was a citation from Peter Donald ;-)

I keep reading it so often on the Avalon list that I couldn't resist 
using it myself ;-)

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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