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From Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>
Subject Re: The sky is falling! :) Comparing Maven and Forrest (Re: NPEs on second build + rant)
Date Mon, 19 Aug 2002 11:10:07 GMT
On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 09:48:43AM +0200, Marc Portier wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff Turner [mailto:jefft@apache.org]
> 
> <snip />
> 
> >
> > Exactly. And why not? Because the focus has
> > always been "let's improve
> > xml.apache.org", not "let's make a generally
> > useful doc system".
> 
> <snip />
> 
> >
> > Forrest micro-optimized on one tiny section of
> > the problem-space.
> > Forrest hoped that a general solution would
> > emerge from tackling a
> 
> <snip />
> 
> 
> "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately
> explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon
> :-)

Goodness, what an agressive-sounding email I wrote.. sorry :) I only
flame things I like. Forrest committers have my highest respect, and
sometimes I forget people don't know that before flaming away.

> Honnestly: I don't think we set off wrong.

Agreed. My aim was to point out an apparent long-term trend away from
'user-friendliness', and to remind people that enlightened self-interest,
if correctly nurtured, can be equally as productive as the sort of
dedication, commitment and hard slog that characterises current Forrest
committers.

> Providing usefull DTDs as forrest did works like you
> describe, they *are* getting used. (even at the moment where
> they still are under construction)
> Next step is helping those users out in actually doing more
> sensible stuff with the content they based on them.

I guess I see a more chaotic, user-needs-driven project lifecycle as
characteristic of a healthy project, but that's a bit short-sighted I
suppose.

> We haven't given the build-for-your-project enough thought
> yet. (forrestbot gave it as a side-effect)
> We knew that, you just prioritized our agenda :-)

Wohoo, rants and flames from lurkers do work ;)

... 
> > of Forrest, I'll be spending tomorrow attempting a Forrest
> Maven plugin.
> 
> We would surely welcome the Maven plugin.
> Better still, we should make it one of the real
> build-targets of forrest.

:) I'll mail when it's working. I'm currently poking through Maven
internals figuring it out.


--Jeff

> regards,
> -marc=
> 

-- 
Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
  C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_

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