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From Bruno Dumon <>
Subject Re: XHTML2 I have read it and I like it... GO READ IT!
Date Sun, 11 Aug 2002 17:28:36 GMT
On Fri, 2002-08-09 at 23:44, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> XHTML2 working draft
> Look at this XHTML2 snippet, and see if it looks familiar:
> <body>
> <h>This is a top level heading</h>
> <p>....</p>
> <section>
>      <p>....</p>
>      <h>This is a second-level heading</h>
>      <p>....</p>
>      <h>This is another second-level heading</h>
>      <p>....</p>
> </section>
> <section>
>      <p>....</p>
>      <h>This is another second-level heading</h>
>      <p>....</p>
>      <section>
>          <h>This is a third-level heading</h>
>          <p>....</p>
>      </section>
> </section>

Doesn't look entirely familiar to me. I see a section which can have two
titles, and the first title is not in the beginning of the section.
Strange. Usually, in the rendered version of a document, the title is
the only means to identify that a new section starts. And if there are
two titles for one section, how will they be numbered?

> There is also a del and an ins elements that can denote parts of the 
> document that are deprecated or drafts 
> Then the meta module 
> ( for:
>   <head profile="">
>    <title>How to complete Memorandum cover sheets</title>
>    <meta name="author" content="John Doe"/>
>    <meta name="copyright" content="&copy; 1997 Acme Corp."/>
>    <meta name="keywords" content="corporate,guidelines,cataloging"/>
>    <meta name="date" content="1994-11-06T08:49:37+00:00"/>
>   </head>
> It will also have a schema, and has just one module for presentation
> # 17. XHTML Presentation Module
>      * 17.1. The hr element
>      * 17.2. The sub element
>      * 17.3. The sup element
> With hr element deprecated.
> Now, I really like this. It's bascally a standard version of our 
> document DTD.

I have the impression that there are a lot of differences:

- documentv11 is still a *lot* simpler than xhtml2, meaning that it is:
   - simpler to learn
   - less work to write stylesheets
   - more restrictive, thus less ways to do dirty hacks
- documentv11 is more device-independent (think of html tags for
scripts, objects, forms, css, image maps, ...).
- documentv11 is in our hands, so it can be tailored towards our needs.
- xhtml2 is not here yet, there's only a very rough first draft, there's
not even a schema or DTD for it.

> Please, please, please read it, since I really want to switch Forrest to it.
> It has sections, it removed presentation markup, it's gonna be standard, 

Presentation markup was already deprecated in HTML 4 (= 1998), so that's
not that new.

> what do you want more?

I think it would be best for forrest to become documenttype-independent.
Thus it should be possible to define documenttype-specific pipelines.
(which of course raises the question of how to identify the type of a
document, but that's another matter).

In the end, the goal of XML is to be able to define application-specific
vocabularies. Different projects or people will always come up with
different requirements. And even in one project, multiple document types
are usefull, e.g. for cocoon it could be usefull to have a document type
for documenting sitemap components.

And it will also become easier to migrate to forrest.

The primary goal for forrest is to be used for the
documentation, so the primary DTD should be one tailord towards
documenting software (but could be html-alike, like it is today).

> It will also give big pubblicity to Forrest, because it will be one of 
> the first implementations of a XHTML2 system!

Programmers shouldn't listen to the marketing guys :-)

> When Steven comes back from vacation I wanna give a vote on this, 
> because it's really COOL:-D
Bruno Dumon                   
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center

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