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From "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <nicola...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Wings] charting development
Date Tue, 14 May 2002 07:37:37 GMT
From: "Morrison, John" <John.Morrison@uk.experian.com>

> > From: Nicola Ken Barozzi [mailto:nicolaken@apache.org]
> >
> > From: "John Morrison" <john.r.morrison@ntlworld.com>
> >
> > > > From: Steven Noels [mailto:stevenn@outerthought.org]
> > > >
> > > > John,
> > > >
> > > > > I did a search of Google and sourceforge and,
> > > > > although I know Keiron from the FOP development I've not found
> > > > > any mention of wings (at least, nothing to do with Java Chart
> > > > > development ;)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Keiron is proposing to contribute his own unnamed code to Wings, I
> > > > believe...
> > >
> > > Would it be better placed in the Cocoon project (third party if
> > > necessary)?  I know *I* could use it for some of the project's I'm
> > > involved with...
> >
> > It can be placed anywhere, but as for Community, I think that Cocoon
> > scratchpad or contrib is not the answer.
>
> Hey - peace :)  I didn't mean to upset!

I'm not upset :-)

Sometimes email make it hard for me to communicate.

> > I had more commits on wings on krysalis than in Cocoon
> > scratchpad for the
> > Cocoon Chart2Svg Transformer.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> > > > Wings itself is situated at
> > > >
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/krysalis/krysalis-wings/
> > > currently, but doesn't offer any XML i/o as far as I understand.
Having
> > > an XML input to a charting package would be cool and alleviate some of
> > > the Forrest burdens, I guess...
> >
> > come to that, does wing's plug into Cocoon or Krysalis/Centipede?
> >
> > Wings is just a charting package.
>
> What's that an answer too?  Cocoon, Krysalis?  Either?  Neither?

It plugs into nothing compulsively, since it's indipendent.
It can be used everywhere.
It's like JCharts, JFreeChart, etc.

The Cocoon integration stuff is in Cocoon scratchpad.

Krysalis:Apache=Centipede:Cocoon

> > > > A friend mentioned http://www.object-refinery.com/jfreechart/,
doesn't
> > > > have any XML input, too, plus it uses LGPL as a license...
> > >
> > > I don't know what licenses we can/can't use :(  I think it's a shame
> > > we can't all work together.
> > >
> > > I'll take a look at the jfreechart, perhaps we could come up with a
> common
> > > DTD/Schema for describing charts in XML?  Thats what I wanted to do
with
> > > the code I contributed to Batik - start a development going, but
nothing
> > > caught :(
> >
> > Well, the primary goal of Wings is to become a charting package API.
> > Secondly of having an Apache license implementation.
>
> My only clevat is that I (personal opinion) don't like projects containing
> other projects.

That's why it's not in Forrest ;-)

Wings is really the implementation, the API will be taken off as soon as it
makes sense.

If it's an API, IMO it makes sense to have it in a special Krysalis API
package like:
org.krysalis.charting.*

APIS=boring names
Implementations=Cool names

> > I had a discussion with JChart main dev, and asked him to merge with
> > Krysalis.
> >
> > He thinks that LGPL serves him better...
>
> His choice.  However, would he work together to develop either a common
> interface or at least a common input data format?

Probably yes, but I think that basically if we build a proposal first it's
better.

> > Anyway, we just had a volunteer on the krysalis list to make the Cocoon
> > Chart Transformer working.
> >
> > Krysalis is a momentum builder, and it's starting to work.
> >
> > We are constantly in the top 100 on sf, and 20 on the mailing list,
> growing
> > per 2-3 a day.
>
> I neither like nor fully trust the 'stats' that SF give.  I don't know
> how they are generated, and I'm sure you know the saying about lies, dam
> lies and statistics ;)

;-)  But the 22 people on the mailing lists are real, and we have just added
2 developers :-)

> > I think that it's a good opportunity for starting new projects, don't
you
> > think?
>
> Personally, I'm unsure.  I think maybe the Apache people don't setup
> projects
> perhaps as often or quickly as they maybe should, on the other hand,
they've
> been 'burnt' before...

If you don't risk, you don't advance.

When someone tells me that he never sins, I think that he isn't doing
anything good either.

Let it roll, man ;-)

> I *do* prefer projects living at Apache once they qualify for acceptance,
> but that's the control freak in me :)

"once they qualify for acceptance".

This is it.

>I hate to think of what would happen
> to all that code if SF went away.

Nothing. Projects would come up somewhere else.
Many devs have the local CVS copy on the hard-disk, so IMHO it's not an
issue.

You know what is a nanosecond?
The time that passes between a Krysalis project qualifying for acceptance at
Apache and the concrete proposal being made at Apache.

:-)


--
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
            - verba volant, scripta manent -
   (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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